When someone dies.....

[Wiltshiregirl06]

Posting for traffic here, all suggestions welcome.

A relative lives a very reclusive life, think a farm house in the middle of nowhere, not much contact with others, apart from occasionally getting shopping delivered from another distant relative.
If he dies, how would we find out or be notified? The distant relative doesn't have my contact details, I don't have theirs. The relative in question is elderly, doesn't see or hear well, can't read be or write very well and isn't likely to have our details to hand, or be able to read it if they did.
Is there anywhere we can register that we (my family and my father) are next of kin? Just to complicate matters, my father and them fell out some years ago and don't speak.
Thank you.

I've told my cousins that they'll know that I'm gone when the neighbours see my milk deliveries piling up. I keep a copy of my will on the mantelpiece. (I put it there during lockdown.)

Can wills be hidden or ripped up? If it's on your mantle and someone thinks it's there favour to rip it up, can they? I've always wondered this. My dad said we had a will but mum.would never find it. We never did! So assume it wasn't registered anywhere? Mum got everything anyway via probate.

Gas and electric won't notice if the bills are being paid via direct debit.

I drove an elderly acquaintance to her cousin's funeral. The cousin had apparently lain in her flat for 6 months - and it wasn't in the middle of nowhere.

Just because your father had a fall out with the relative does not mean that you should perpetuate that.
I would drop a letter through the door saying that you were in the area and wanted to see if they were OK and would like to meet/make contact. At least there's then a chance that they keep the letter and the police find it if he/she is ever found collapsed or dead in the property.
With regards to their estate then if there's no will and no obvious next of kin then Bona Vacantia rules would apply, and eventually one of those "Heir Hunter" companies would research and contact you.

It can be if it's not registered. It can also be challenged, of course.

In my case, my closest living relatives would be the beneficiaries in any case.

You mention the money side is sorted…if that means that someone in your friend’s family knows about a will or financial arrangements, then perhaps your friend could ask the solicitors if they would notify her when he dies? Not sure if they would do that but perhaps.

Well as someone who tried to get in touch with an awful lot of distant relatives after a death, I find that very sad. All the distant relatives were so pleased to have been contacted to be made aware - no money involved.

This seems horribly cynical.

Well quite.

Either:

A) He has a will and he's quite possibly not included you in it, in which case tough.

B) He has a will and you are a beneficiary, in which case a probate lawyer will track you down.

C) He doesn't have a will, in which case a probate lawyer will track down anyone related to him no matter how distant and you will receive your slice of his pie. Fear not.

I knew someone who dies intestate, unmarried and childless. His cousins, who he barely ever saw, got about 1million between them.

True though.

She needs to make contact with the relative that is visiting and caring.

Convince them it's not about money grabbing and asking to be informed.

What is her interest in the uncle if she's 200 miles away, doesn't visit, doesn't speak? She she write to him? Share her news? Reach out in any way to say I'm here and thinking of you?

He sounds old. She must be a mature adult too. Why now?

It is very sad indeed.

@Wiltshiregirl06 i just wanted to say Thank You for starting this thread.
It’s an issue I’ve been battling with my own parents (living abroad, no support network etc….) and Im an only child….

Unlike your situation, I’m in regular contact with them.
But it reminded me that I need a discussion with them re having my details on file somewhere in case they have an accident. And a card listing all contact details (me, my adult dcs, maybe mum’s niece).

EDIT TO ADD
The big issue is that they are each other contact number in case of emergency for all documents.
So if they were in an accident together, emergency services would be stuck in a loop.

Unless thats the way you would act why is it your automatic assumption?

Once you've been in a similar situation with elderly relatives you may understand a bit better. I think it may also relate to having been brought up in an environment where caring for people was more of a thing.

Incidentally, I'm of a generation where most of our elderly relatives (born pre WW2) never had any money other than the state pension and we subbed them out!

RTFT

"Next of kin" isn't a legal category. If they want someone to have POA, they appoint them (though that means nothing as soon as they're dead). They will have named their executor(s) and beneficiaries in their will; whoever that is, a solicitor will contact them. For all you know they already have a bit of paper somewhere easy to find with their "who to contact in the event of my death" stuff on it.

Unfortunately this is the kind of case where a body can lie undiscovered for a while. But once someone finds it and reports it, every effort will be made to locate family members.

It's funny how the first answer always sets the tone, and most people now think that the OP (or her friend,) is only after the money!

Quite honestly though @Wiltshiregirl06 if your friend is not in any kind of contact with this relative, then he will be long gone/buried/cremated before she finds out. If she is not close to him, it's unlikely that she will be instantly notified of his death.

If he dies, how would we find out or be notified?

With my uncle the milkman (rare these days) noticed the milk has not be taken in, so called the police and they broke in. Somehow found details of relatives from documents , contacted another niece in the first instance.

In your relatives case guess the other relative would find out as and when they visited.

Might be worth suggesting a telephone based alarm button (worn round neck) in case they feel unwell or need help in case of a fall.

"You could contact her local social services and register as next of kin. You could register your concern as the person sounds vulnerable."

From my experience working with social service when I was in the NHS, the first thing social services will ask is do you have permission from the person to speak to us and if the answer is no, then end of conversation and quite right too.

As a pp suggested contact social services and register concerns about vulnerable elderly adult.

I know ots a long way but if they’re not answering the phone could she go and visit and try and get the details for the distant relative? I’d also be tempted to take a notice in large print saying something along the lines of in case of emergency please contact *Wiltshiregirl’s DFriend at” avd leave a copy with the distant relative and a couple of copies in the farmhouse. Assuming that your DFriend would want to be contacted in an emergency and not just on death?

How would anyone know if this person dies? Hopefully someone would realise he hasn’t had a delivery or whatever and get a welfare check done. Or perhaps this person has a more of a social life than you know of if you are not in contact?
Anyway, initially a death is reported to the police/healthcare professional. The council will have a bereavement service. They will search the property for any paperwork, ask neighbours etc. Often you are asked for a ‘in case of emergency contact’ on paperwork so someone may be listed. And you don’t know maybe there’s a will. They could possibly get a genealogist involved.
If no kin is found they may arrange a public health funeral.
I do know of a man who was a recluse and became very ill and was taken to a hospice where he died. They had no information on him so his house, which was in a revolting state (I saw it) was searched by people in hazmat suits - it really was that bad. They were able to finally trace a sister, who was disabled and had no contact with the man for years. It took some months.
You also leave a ‘paper’ trail, not least through tax records, though you don’t say what kind of relative this person is to you it seems it’s through your father, so they may make a connection there.
I was recently forwarded a letter through the HMRC about a policy I had in the 1980s in my maiden name. I have moved about eight times since then, been out of the country for a five year period, changed bank accounts and got married with subsequent name change. They still found me through my tax records.

Sorry saw the update that this is a friend not you.

As pp have next of kin is not legally binding .

Its more about registering that the person is vulnerable. Lives alone, only has occasional contact from the other distant relative, poor sight and hearing, can't read. This person should be on the radar of social services.

Yes, but other pps (myself included) think that you can't just phone up services and insert yourself in someone else's business without some involvement of the individual concerned, which sounds like a reasonable assumption, don't you think?