The school run has put me off other women

[SueSuddio]

I used to have a woman problem. In my 20s I mostly sought out male friendship & thought I had nothing in common with other women save for a couple of female friends.

When I got pregnant and had children, my head spun and I felt ashamed of myself with all my internalised mysogyny. I was lucky to make some lovely friends - I gravitate towards women now.

However, I was then introduced to the school run. Tons of women, tons of cliques. And I had a flashback to the bitchy girls at school, the bullies and even my friends who were nice one minute, nasty or ignoring me the next. I'm not getting bullied now, but I'm often getting ignored.

I still think I had internalised mysogyny when I was younger, but I also think it was completely supported by the female nastiness I encountered, echoes of which I see at the school gate.

Hoping it passes but can anyone relate?

Raising the mum clique stereotype at the school gates really gets my back up. It’s groups of friends talking 🤷‍♀️ no one’s bullying anyone but I don’t have time to say ‘hello how are you’ to every single school mum. I’m going to choose to chat with the ones I know for the 3 mins before I rush off to work. Is this the ‘female nastiness’ you mean?

I think like any time of life, you just need to find the select few people whose company you enjoy. You don't need to be friends with everyone but I'm sure amongst the 'tons of women' you will be able to find a few that you find a connection with.

Never understood the problem with mums at the gate. I drop my kids off and go to work so I don't even notice tbh. Not something I've ever encountered.

I've never, ever been able to relate to a woman saying "I get on better with men"

I like some women, I dislike others.
Same with men.
But I definitely have always believed in women supporting women and hold no truck whatsoever with the " women are bitchier, I prefer men " shite.

I think you might be projecting your past unpleasant experience.
Nobody is ignoring you out of nastiness but in my experience nobody has the time or energy to stop and make new friends at the school gates.
I’m sorry you’re feeling isolated at the moment, it’s a horrible feeling.

Honestly, it sounds like a you problem.

Try striking up a conversation at the gates, they are juts people, they’re not cliques. Such a cliché.

Any YY to ‘get on better with men’ - yuck.

Honestly they are probably just busy with their own lives, have their own stuff going on, had a rough morning etc. and it's got nothing to do with you at all.

This topic turns up a lot. Something that's important to consider is that you are not the only person in other people's lives. There will be 30 kids in the class, kids make all sorts of new friends, and the parents want to say hi on the school run. One day they might chat to parents 1, 2 and 3. Next day laughing with oarents 4 and 5 because they were told their three kids got up to mischief together the day before. This in no way invalidates them liking parents 1, 2 nor 3; they are just swapping some stories. The third day maybe they will talk with 2, 5 and person 6 about something else. You need to stop taking it personally, because it is your own affrontedness and grumpiness towards totally normal human behaviour that will isolate you. People are not and should not be exclusively your friend only on the school run.

Yes, or, understandably, they’re not keen on befriending someone reeking of internalised misogyny who regards other people talking to their friends as a personal slight?

What do you mean by tone of women, tons of cliques? You’re talking about mums of kids who go the school (are there no dads?! Here it’s about 50/50) having a chat with other mums of kids who go to the school. They’re either friends because their kids get on and they’ve invested time getting to know each other, they’re neighbours, one said hi to the other and now they have casual chit chat of a morning.

No one’s out to get you but equally no one’s waiting to befriend you and give you a social life. If you want to have people to talk to then talk to people! The persecution complex is going to put people off.

Except there really is bitching and nastiness and if you don't recognise it, you are either tone deaf to it or responsible for me it.

I'm pretty sure it's you, not them.

Anyway, it's no loss to womankind.

I’ve definitely seen this at my kids school, and yes it does remind me of being back on the playground myself. However, you won’t be the only one feeling this, there will be other mums like you. Pay no attention to the clique and look to those on the outside.

I understand your point about 'internalised misogyny'. I was on a flight once when they gave the pilot's and co-pilot's names as (eg.) Linda and Lorraine and I had a nano-second of wondering if they were up to the job.
OTOH some women will put themselves down. I hear our female vicar often say along the lines of 'little old me, I'm not clever enough to understand finance' and it drives me nuts.
I also used to think badly of the young women with buggies who I saw around town - until I got pg and realised I'd been envious all along!
Anyway, I'm not sure what relevance this has. Sorry. As you were!

I think PP is right, most school mum "cliques" are just friends sticking with their friends, but that's also what groups at school are and it's very difficult when you find that you don't fit in, or when you try to make light conversation and no one will make any effort back.

I’ll say what I always say on these threads: women are humans.

Some are nice, some are not, some are having a bad day, some have misread you and think you don’t want to talk, some are preoccupied, some are convinced they’re “not like other girls” because they are influenced by ridiculous stereotypes and misogyny, some are in a hurry, some know each other from outside school, etc etc etc.

I have not encountered any cliques, bullying, or similar issues in ten years of the school run at 3 schools, and don’t know anybody in real life who says that they have.

So either you have been unlucky with your school, or the problem is more with your perceptions and assumptions than with anybody’s actual behaviour.

There's nastiness in every single place, situation and with groups of men and women all over the world.

It's known as life.

And there will definitely be times when you too were responsible for some of it.

Most of the issues I’ve had with school mums come down to what I think is classism more than anything. We are not really prim and proper because that’s inauthentic to who we are (we being me and DH) and some people don’t like that. We’re not rude, not ruckus (well not at the school gates anyway). There’s two mums who I really really like, and on days where they’re not there I do feel kind of excluded and anxious like I did when I was a teen at school. I know it’s sometimes not nice, but it’s a small portion of your day and if you don’t want to you don’t have to speak to anyone bar your child. If my pals aren’t there I tend to just do an in and out, sometimes have my headphones in. I used to make a big effort, but I don’t think I will fit in there and it’s fine - at the end of the day our kids are at the same school, we live in the same area, there’s no one there who’s better than anyone.

There are definitely nasty women in the world. I would argue men are far, far nastier, given that the rates at which they murder, rape and maim other people.

Being around someone who believes in cliques and 'being left out' is incredibly uncomfortable. Dealing with insecure people is very difficult - people, especially busy people with children - tend to avoid it and go for easygoing people who just get on with chatting and don't mind if sometimes someone forgets to say hello.

If you could get out of your own head and see the women around you as people who are just trying to get on with life you might find they're not out to get you - in fact, you are just not that important.

You’re there to drop off or collect the kids, no need to do anything beyond that.

I’m very relieved I don’t have to do the school run anymore 🤣. I just kept myself to myself and only chatted to about 2 of the mums but was friendly to others, interestingly the mums I had in common both worked similar professional jobs and similar outlook/interests

Exactly. Tiresome old trope. Women need to support women in this world. Men generally hate us. If people don’t understand that yet, they will in time..

Are you involved in the school PTA? That's probably where most of the women have got to know each other.
Get stuck into school activities and you'll get to know them too

They couldn't possibly be chatting to their friends no? Ugh sick of reading this bullshit. It's just so tireeome.

Its strange that groups of men in the pub or playing golf don't get called bitchy cliques.

Just women. Hmm.