The school run has put me off other women

[SueSuddio]

I used to have a woman problem. In my 20s I mostly sought out male friendship & thought I had nothing in common with other women save for a couple of female friends.

When I got pregnant and had children, my head spun and I felt ashamed of myself with all my internalised mysogyny. I was lucky to make some lovely friends - I gravitate towards women now.

However, I was then introduced to the school run. Tons of women, tons of cliques. And I had a flashback to the bitchy girls at school, the bullies and even my friends who were nice one minute, nasty or ignoring me the next. I'm not getting bullied now, but I'm often getting ignored.

I still think I had internalised mysogyny when I was younger, but I also think it was completely supported by the female nastiness I encountered, echoes of which I see at the school gate.

Hoping it passes but can anyone relate?

That's good!

There are all kinds of women (and men) at the school gate but the problem is you’re stuck in the vicinity of the crazy ones for years at a time. Sure, there’s the ‘it’s just three minutes’ argument but that’s a little ingenuous given the amount of events, play dates and general enmeshment of the primary years.

Lots of women are nice, the ones with older children tend to be a little aloof as they’ve already been through the crazy once and then you get the bullies, the mad ones and the ‘let’s synchronise our diaries so you can be my free childcare ones.’

I remember that there were bit hy cliques when DD was in school.
When my younger two start, I don't think I'll be bothered tbh.
It feels like such a big thing when people are mean or just blank you but I think time away from it also teaches us that these people weren't so big, special, or better.

I moved areas when DD was in middle school. I joined the PTA, I was invited by them all to go for breakfast the next day. I was all excited. I was making friends in my new area.
I got there, and no one else turned up. It was a restaurant V V near the school. I waited for over an hour and a half. Maybe they were all late! Maybe they had planned on being there straight after school, but had errands and would be there at 10, maybe they were late for 10.
No one ever apologised, they all blanked me until they wanted someone to grab one of their kids or needed someone to walk their kids in.

In the years following, I realised actually, I wouldn't choose to be friends with any of them anyway, and actually doing what they did to me was mean- which I am not, but their meanness came from them having less than happy lives outside of the playground.

She likely had those issues with the younger versions of the women posting stuff like that too. Can spot them a mile off.

So, you like every man you've ever met?

What have these women done to you that's been nasty?

Saying they ignore you suggests you’ve actually said hello and been ignored. Have you?

Having a son at school has taught me that boys are just the same as girls in terms of being “cliquey”, leaving people out etc For good or bad, they’re exactly the same with their friendships and being close with some people, falling in and out of friendships etc

Agree, some women can be real nasty little creatures and seem to get worse the older they get

I think this part of the difference

whereas you're more likely to have an actual conversation, with questions and everything, from women.

women talk about people and emotions -difficult to do that with others around unless you like being called a gossip
men talk about things

I hate the term 'clique'. Groups of friends are not cliques unless they deliberately exclude people to be unfriendly. Most people, male and female, are actually pretty nice.

I did experience some difficulty years ago when someone that I considered a friend and had encouraged to join my group of friends on nights/days out etc., actively tried to exclude me and my children and turn others against me, but that wasn't because it was the school gate, a clique or any of those things. It was simply because she is an arsehole. She ended up falling out with just about everyone in the end. I still have the same friends, along with others who have appeared along the way, long after my children left school.

It's not the 'school gate' or 'women', it's just life and 'people'.

They can, and so can men. Again, it's just people.

The bitchiest group of people that I work with is a group of 3 men and 1 woman who tear just about everyone down, including each other.

My dc is starting school next month and we’ve been told we aren’t allowed to gather or speak at the school gates as it disturbs the neighbours. They have said do not be early, arrive exactly at handover time then leave immediately 😂

^^ that’s a relief for you

It's not the 'school gate' or 'women', it's just life and 'people'.

Agree, our village hall committee in a later smaller village was like the Roman Senate and absolutely ruthless. I soon came off that too 😂 school gates is just another place where a lot of personalities, some overbearing & unpleasant, are forced together. Also it includes the pressure of conforming to being the stereotypical mum happily socialising with a large group of other mums. We’re not all into that, and there’s absolutely nothing wrong with that.

I admire their optimism in their ability to let the children out bang on time.

It's not the 'school gate' or 'women', it's just life and 'people'

I don’t disagree that difficult people at the school gates are likely difficult elsewhere too but it’s quite a unique environment the first time you’re exposed to it.

😆

This says it perfectly.

Also, women don't have to be friendly to everyone. We're socially conditioned to be nice. This is why no one ever talks about the dads.

Honestly DC1 just finished primary and I spoke to some people at leavers assembly I had never spoken to before- our paths hadn't crossed. I don't think it's because I'm a cow, we'd just never had cause to speak. I don't have to use energy being a social emollient, neither do they.

I get where you are coming from.

I live in a small village and everyone knows everyone's business or thinks they do. I refuse to join in with the gossip.

This meant the school run wasn't for me when DC were little and agree with a pp who said it's an errand - in and out as quickly as possible. I used to know the parents of DC friends to be polite and that was enough.

If you are looking to make meaningful friendships with parents that is a whole other ball game and my answer might have been different.

I guess it depends what you mean by tries to join in.

A lot of posters that complain about school run mums consider they mere presence there as “joining in” and other mums not actively approaching them as “ignoring”. Or , if they do get past that first hurdle, they see not instantly becoming bossom buddies, being invited to everything and anything as being kept at arm’s length/snubbed .

I don't have kids at primary atm but when I did, I could never understand how women could become so close to chat twice a day, about what? I was friendly with a few school mums but wouldn't call them friends. I was friendly and said hello to some others but got ignored. I left it as that. There are nice women at the school gates but just have to get to know them. As a busy working introvert mum better said than done.

If clique means some one walks over to a group says hello and is ignored that is awful and wrong.

If clique means group chatting when you arrive and no opportunity to introduce yourself/join in that is normal and fine. Look for someone else not chatting already and say hello with some chit chat about the weather.

I was treated horribly by my two best friends (they ghosted me because I didn’t go to the right college 😓). I’ve never wanted female friendship since then. I don’t miss the constant drama and bitchy behaviour. I’m lucky I’m childfree and don’t have to do the school run as I know I’d hate it.

These threads come up often enough that I don’t doubt this can be some people’s experience as a school parent. I just really struggle to imagine it. I have been a school parent for nearly 10 years, across 3 children and 4 different schools (2 state, 2 private) and have never seen or experienced anything remotely like it. None of the other parents (mothers or fathers) seem to have the time or energy for drama, and I’ve never been in a conversation with another parent where there was bitchiness or negativity toward someone else. I get the sense we are all too focused on our own lives to bother. The same as with female friendships. I have both female and male friends, but more female friendships now. They are all easy, supportive, and drama free relationships. To be honest, I’d let a friendship go if it was hard work or bitchy, as I just couldn’t be bothered. I think ultimately if someone is having a hard time finding non-bitchy female friends, there might be an issue with their selection process and detecting the read flags early enough. That’s not victim blaming, just logic. If someone can’t find a non-bitchy woman, then they must be looking in the wrong places as I know a tonne of them. If I think about all the women I know, I would probably only label 2 as bitchy.