The school run has put me off other women

[SueSuddio]

I used to have a woman problem. In my 20s I mostly sought out male friendship & thought I had nothing in common with other women save for a couple of female friends.

When I got pregnant and had children, my head spun and I felt ashamed of myself with all my internalised mysogyny. I was lucky to make some lovely friends - I gravitate towards women now.

However, I was then introduced to the school run. Tons of women, tons of cliques. And I had a flashback to the bitchy girls at school, the bullies and even my friends who were nice one minute, nasty or ignoring me the next. I'm not getting bullied now, but I'm often getting ignored.

I still think I had internalised mysogyny when I was younger, but I also think it was completely supported by the female nastiness I encountered, echoes of which I see at the school gate.

Hoping it passes but can anyone relate?

@SueSuddio

I’m with you. I was you.

it was fine when i was single, hung out with guys at college as it was just too complicated as i just didnt gel with the women i was in classes with. Work wise, working with female bosses has been largely negative, only my last job worked well enough, but that was because she didn’t challenge anyone or anything and I didn’t need management from her, just knew the politics away from us function.

I get on with SOME women better than others. I find female relationships harder, but now I’m in a relationship that’s all that’s available now as having a male/female relationship isn’t viable anymore. Sometimes it gets lonely.

i don’t think any of this is internal misogyny, it’s just that perhaps I don’t gel with a lot of women, have little in common in terms of interests. Female relationships are far more complex and I struggle with them.

I don’t have the answers, but a small number of good relationships with women is fine. Quality not quantity

This is probably going to sound meaner than it should OP, but you seem to be the common denominator in these friendship issues you’ve had your whole adult life..

Tend to agree with this.

I have one friend who says this all the time.

But really it’s because she is quite a bitter person, but dressed up in faux positivity, so she’s very passive aggressive and tries to drag people down, and is constantly falling out with people.

Her behaviour has made me wary of people who say this.

i don’t think any of this is internal misogyny, it’s just that perhaps I don’t gel with a lot of women, have little in common in terms of interests

But all women have different interests? I play the guitar and netball. I have friends who are interested in all sorts of things… most of them are not interested in guitar and netball! Unless you’re suggesting that women are all into make up and celebrities, or something like that?

I found school parents too busy to be in cliques i mean we had jobs, kids, extra curricular activities medical appointments etc. To fit in and organise, whinging like a 12 year old girl about how hard done i feel as a 'school mum' s judging me was not high on the list

I get on with woman and men because I treat them as human

I attend a group hobby -all women -all busy doing their own thing -a couple of them chatting quietly in the corner then one of them said something v funny -the whole room exploded -everyone had been listening intently - I don’t think a group of men would have been the same. If DH is doing his hobby that is all he is doing.
pointless comment really but I’m just wondering why women are so aware of every comment/ nuance/ reaction /behaviour- some basic instinct

though women are v protective of their young so maybe school is a place they are unrelaxed and wary deep down

People who have been hurt will protect themselves though - it’s really not nice to berate someone who has been badly treated through no fault of their own as like as not

you really are not supporting someone who has experienced mild sex based abuse because it was women and girls who did the damage ? When someone says they prefer men to women instead of assuming they are “shite” ask yourself why they might feel that way. By “holding no truck with them” you just reinforce the idea that women hate them

Nope. Still internalised misogyny.

Yes this. Essentially, it’s just a place to drop off and pick up your kids. I don’t think my mum ever stood at a school gate in her life (save for infants school). You could just not get there so early you’re hanging around. If you happen to chat with someone and you get on, great, but it’s (the gates) purpose wasn’t created so parents can be part of a group. I chatted to various mums but I was never in a group. I’m still very friendly with a couple of them over a decade later but neither of them even know each other.

Can no-one see the irony that on a platform largely populated by women many are unkindly responding to a woman who says she is having a hard time because she feels a group of women are being unkind to her (and then telling her she is imagining it)?

@SueSuddio I'm sorry, it can't feel very nice, although maybe the sour responses will validate your experience indirectly.

Aren't some people lucky if they've never experienced something like this - it doesn't mean someone else hasn't. And yes it can be a viscious cycle where a few negative experiences can mean we become anxious/defensive in our stance and things spiral further. I can't imagine the nature of most of these responses will help break that spiral though.

OP I hope you can focus on the more helpful, understanding responses, and also any other adults in the playground who have open friendly faces that you may connect with over time. It's painful to feel excluded WHETHER ITS INTENTIONAL OR NOT (the caps are for the deniers not OP).

Yes that period of being forced together in mostly all female groups when the children are small and also being stuck socialising or even having to have regular contact with women that really aren’t your cup of tea on the school run is incredibly hard. It’s not you, many mums feel the same and it can be very cliquey which is similar to schooldays. In hindsight it doesn’t last too long although at the time it can seem endless. Also as the kid’s age it dies down. I just avoided the ‘motherland’ gang at the school gates, was also friendly but kept many at arms length. I then had 3 great mum friends who I really liked and am still friends with now. We now joke about this period of our lives. Stay strong, it does get better.

I had this at the school gates with one of mine, the clique of mums I found myself in the circle of was ridiculous.
There was one who must have fancied herself as "Queen Bee", everyone gravitated around her.
There was one poor unfortunate chosen every week or so to "fall out with" and gossip about.
It was honestly like being back in the school playground myself. Made me realise the school bullies must never really grow up and just turn into the "mum" ones.
Kind of with you on the preferring blokes company, at least they usually come out and say what the problem is instead of all the cryptic gossiping bollocks 😁
Disclaimer - yes, NAWALT (not all women) before anyone starts 😁

Have you ever considered that this might be a you problem? As far as I remember the school run there wasn’t actually much time for chatting as most of us were dropping off and going to work. Why would you feel ignored in that scenario, do you not have to get to work?

I’ve met women who don’t like other women, my MIL is one, I don’t know if it’s because you don’t get the validation that you need from women so you prefer men? Maybe men play to your ego a bit more.

I would be lost without my women friends, we support each other and they’re always there if I need to vent or a hand hold. I’ve been happily married for many years but I get something from my friends that I could never get from my husband, my friends get what it’s like and how difficult it can be living in this world as a woman sometimes. I find it sad that you haven’t experienced it.

I never get this either. I arrive two mins before the bell, I might chat to one or two people I am friendly with if they are there at same time, then I leave. Same at pick-up. Otherwise I don’t have time or inclination to chat to anyone else. Other people do the same with their friends. It’s not a clique, it’s just people choosing to talk to their friends in the few minutes they have spare.

Same here. I know some of the mums and dads a bit better because our kids are friends so they've been round on playdates and so on. Quite often a parent who I don't know but one of them does comes to join us, all good. It's never more than a few minutes before the kids all go in or come out anyway.

I used to arrive at the school run drop of and pick up at the last possible second to avoid them as I used to be called stuck up for having my hair and make up done and wearing presentable clothes.

I found it utter madness as unlike them I had places to be.

There have definitely been different dynamics at the different primary schools my DCs have been to- DC 2's current school is much more MC, a lot of the mums especially don't work or don't work much and I think have probably all known each other for years and as a result are friends which I suppose might appear cliquey- I do think there's definitely some classism going on as well from a couple of comments and it quite notable the class stratification. DC1's primary was much more WC and down to earth but there was loads of outside beef that got brought into the school playground.

OP I think you need to not place emphasis on school relationships and seek out friends and volunteering elsewhere. Do you work? Then it won't matter. DC2 has asc 3x a week, I only pick up once, I don't need to be friends with the people at school. There are loads of parents like me, so you're not necessarily being excluded by us, I'm just not there and don't have time for my actual friends, and especially no time if I'm racing back to my desk for a meeting or running for a train.

What do you mean cliques? I have never had any experience of that. Plenty of parents who i dont talk to and they talk in groups. I wouldn't call it a clique or have any issue with them being friends. I walk to school with whoever is going that direction so stand with and chat to the neighbours. Have become friends. I say hello to anyone who I make contact with. Others seem to be rhe same.

Have you ever considered that this might be a you problem? As far as I remember the school run there wasn’t actually much time for chatting as most of us were dropping off and going to work. Why would you feel ignored in that scenario, do you not have to get to work?

See, that's just nasty. ""You" problem." 🙄 You don't know the OP's set up. Some school yards do have groups of friends that get together and act like complete weirdos when it comes to people not in the group "outsiders". It wasn't a thing with my second kid, the mums were all "normal", but t definitely was with the eldest and one particular group. Even the teachers had noticed 😁

I don’t relate at all. I’ve never met so many nice, kind, friendly people as I have at my children’s school. There are some cliques but I don’t engage with those.

I would just say hello to anyone there that I vaguely recognised, sometimes it would turn into a few minutes chat, sometimes someone else might join in, no one was excluded. I suppose if there was a small group formed when you arrived it might look like a clique but would be just a random selection of mums in my experience. But as others have said it was maybe 5 minutes morning and evening, not a huge thing.

Totally agree. I’m sorry if Op feels ignored but I talk to the parents I actually know for 5 mins then get to work. I’m not cliquey at all but I don’t have to introduce myself and welcome other mums either!

How do you and your three or four close friends at the school gate differ from the 'cliques' that you saw? Would a woman on their own feeling vulnerable not perceive your group as a clique? If not then why?

I just drop kids off and go home - hardly talk to anyone. I've never been interested in talking to anyone for a longer time as I'm very busy!

This confuses me too. What are these mysterious interests that only men have?

I am interested in pretty much everything. Except team sports. If I'm generalising, I would say that men like to tell you about stuff (hello dh and ds), whereas you're more likely to have an actual conversation, with questions and everything, from women. But this comes down to socialisation and learning how to communicate. Which is why men just throw facts about football or music at each other as a bonding exercise. It's safer.

Men's conversations at school pick up tend to go like this:
Alright.
Alright.
You not in work today then?
Yeah mate, I was on 6-2. You watching the game tonight?

Dh, as a non football fan used to run out of conversation very quickly.