The school run has put me off other women

[SueSuddio]

I used to have a woman problem. In my 20s I mostly sought out male friendship & thought I had nothing in common with other women save for a couple of female friends.

When I got pregnant and had children, my head spun and I felt ashamed of myself with all my internalised mysogyny. I was lucky to make some lovely friends - I gravitate towards women now.

However, I was then introduced to the school run. Tons of women, tons of cliques. And I had a flashback to the bitchy girls at school, the bullies and even my friends who were nice one minute, nasty or ignoring me the next. I'm not getting bullied now, but I'm often getting ignored.

I still think I had internalised mysogyny when I was younger, but I also think it was completely supported by the female nastiness I encountered, echoes of which I see at the school gate.

Hoping it passes but can anyone relate?

IME a group of men in the pub will include and absorb any and all men who approach them. They wouldn't ignore a lone man at the bar and they certainly wouldn't ignore one who tried to be friendly.

I find it really bizarre when women (and I've only seen this with women - it may happen with men too) believe that other women are super confident and have somehow organised this closed 'clique' that they can never have access to. It's like a weird micro-conspiracy theory. The same women always seem to believe other women must be super welcoming at all times, always be polite and say hello, never have a bad day, never just be in their own world or they're bitches.

Believe me, they are just getting on with life. I promise you. No one is trying to exclude you.

I can believe this is true, but I have never once seen evidence of it in my whole life.

The men in my life have very very fixed groups of friends. They would never in a million years talk to a stranger in a bar, not for all the money in the world.

I belief to a running club and its really interesting to watch the way relationship (friendships) form.

The women have their groups and whilst they're polite friendly to newcomers, it can take a long time for new women to feel part of the gang. The men are best buddies, arranging extra runs outside of club and including newbies to join established groups within a few sessions.

The new people themselves behave differently too. Women wait to be "included", men just assume that they will be.

The school run isn’t a club, it’s an errand, just like buying groceries. And just like buying groceries, most people want to be in and out as quick as possible. Some, if they see someone they know, will stop and talk for a few minutes. Stopping to talk to a complete stranger while running an errand would put most people out of their comfort zone. Some people make an effort to do this because they want to get to know the parents of their kids friends, but it’s not easy and natural for anyone.

if the topic comes up a lot maybe there is some truth to it if one person says something u can say o your paranoid if a lot of people are saying the same thing then there must be something in it

You’re going to get your ass handed to you here. That’s how these threads always go.

I get this OP, bullied at school by the 'popular ones' and now on the school run there's 2 or 3 who purposely ignore me, even ignoring / turning head the other way when her partner or the other people she's with say morning. I thought it might be because we aren't from the village but it's still our catchment school, but then she's friendly with other mums who aren't from the village and were new last year. I am on the PTA.

Your school must be different to ours. I live opposite and they start arriving for pick up at about 2:15 and in the mornings are often still there chatting at 10am, especially when the weather's nice 😆 True there are those who need to be in and out quickly, but I don't think those are the ones OP is taking about.

Why do we women haven to befriend every stray that comes our way. I’m just finished the primary school years and at school pick up times I spoke to my friends who were there because I like them and they're my friends. It’s not a snub to anyone else. People here also assume everyone at the school gate are rational people., there’s plenty of nightmares there that I’ve no interest in getting to know.

Exactly this. They’re groups of friends, chatting with each other. That’s all.

What’s the massive problem? Genuinely curious.

My eldest is starting school next month. I’ll be doing pick up. I wfh which is really isolating and i’m looking forward to a chat and to hopefully make some more friends this way.

First post nails it!

Also there's something really off about women who say "I get on better with men" sorry

Ooh look another oh so edgy bitchplop and run OP

Never understood this need to make friends at school gates. Who cares about stranger whose kids happen to go to the same school as your kids. Why so much obsession about it?

Female co workers and managers, well that’s a whole other ballgame. Male colleagues and managers are way less drama and way nicer (generalization I know).

The ones that work, don’t have time to chat because they need to pay for those who are stood around chatting until 10am.

I see a few threads where school mums are accused of being in cliques, it seems to be some sort of lashing out as the person using the term feels excluded, so don’t wish to admit it’s just a group of people who are friends. I also see a lot of these people want to be invited to join, are envious, and declare themselves being ignored, when they are simply another person at the school gate they don’t know really. They are no more ignored or witnessing a clique than if they went to thr pub and saw a group of female friends together who didn’t invite them and everyone else to join them. What’s very curious is the focus is always on these groups and not the many other mums who also are not part of that group. They seem to be irrelevant.

im sorry you’re hurting op, these women are not to blame for any social issues you have, nor are you entitled to be part of their friendship group, and if you feel lonely you can approach any of the mums, or do things outwith the school, good luck I hope you find some happiness and friends,

Wow, that's quite a chip. I'd assumed (if I thought about it at all) they're being supported by the fathers of their children.

Children tend to go to and from school on their own from a young age (age 6/7) where I am in Scotland so the school run was luckily never an issue for me. I never had time for chats and most parents would just say hi to eachother.

Before we use misogynist terms like "clique" can you tell me why chatting to mums you've met through baby groups is "cliquey"?

Then can you tell my why don't you talk to the mums you met at baby groups at the school gates?

Do you do much outside of your kids? Because it's a lot of headspace to even consider this when it's literally 10 mins twice a day in an otherwise full life. You aren't missing much. It's mostly awkward small talk.

If you want to make school mum friends, join the PTA. It never ceases to amaze me how many people think they will have tonnes of friends at the school gate but literally never strike up casual conversation or actively try to make friends.

I talk to the parents I went to baby groups woth, thst I help on the pta, that I volunteer with at school events, the woman sat next to me at school shows, the person stood alone at the school gate... and I hold down a full time job. Yet people (not aimed at you OP) continuously whine on mumsnet that they are excluded when they make no outboud effort and yet expect to have the world in their lap. You get out of life what you put in.

I have 2 children, with the mums in my first child’s year group I would say I don’t know what you mean as the mums were all doing their own thing, some talked, some didn’t, but there were no undertones of nastiness to it at all.

With my second child the mums in their year group are horrible. There is a large clique of women who are constantly bitching, laughing at other mums - laughing at how they look, what they are wearing etc, side eyeing people, deliberately making people feel uncomfortable. I can’t wait until my child leaves the school.

I’m with you on this one op!

I was bullied really badly at school by groups of girls who were merciless. I have ASD in my family which was unknown about then and I am sure my pedantic approach to things didn’t help.

However, I turned up at the school gates with an open mind and it was just as bad as I had feared! Very cliquey!

But, I think a lot depends on the school, Also, no one is at their best in that environment, especially during the morning rush.

Also, there is something about a group dynamic per se, with both men and women which can easily turn hostile. If there are any psychologists or anthropologists on the thread, I’d be interested to know why? But I have experienced the thing you mention at work where individuals can be perfectly pleasant one-to-one and then get really hostile around a meeting room table.

I guess it’s helpful to remember that everyone is insecure to a degree and therefore susceptible to a certain group dynamic.

As far as the school run goes; I found that there are always one or two nice mothers or fathers standing at the edges who are not part of any clique. And the best way to get to know people is on a one-to-one basis; so volunteer and get to know other individuals that way. Good luck!

There's always some people on these threads who say that it's not cliquey, but I think they are probably lucky that they haven't encountered it. I have two school aged children; in one class most parents mix and chat and are friendly, but in the other it is a nightmare. The parents in that class literally do not say hello to anyone outside of their group, or mums who I thought I was friendly with will blank me when other members of the group are around. It's bizarre mean girl behaviour.

What are the mums actually doing?