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About Gender neutral loo

1000 replies

paulhollywoodshairgel · 14/08/2025 18:59

I was in a museum today and my daughter (15) left me to go to the loo. She then waved me over.. she said to me.. I’d rather not use the gender neutral loo. I said that’s fine and sent her down a level to the ladies. A woman the approached me and preceded to tell me off for not encouraging my daughter to use the GN loo. How she has a trans child and how are they ever going to feel accepted with people like me around. I’m ND and I always second guess myself 10000 times a day. I wasn’t in the wrong was I?? I just said ok go and use the other separate loo. Surely my child can pee wherever she feels comfortable??!! I hate conflict so I just said ok and walked off!

OP posts:
Thread gallery
47
Tandora · 18/08/2025 14:14

spannasaurus · 18/08/2025 14:12

Try googling something she has said rather than what others say about her

I literally just googled her name and the swimmers name.

It you have a source that proves your claims about Lia Thomas please do share it.

DrPrunesqualer · 18/08/2025 14:14

Tandora · 18/08/2025 14:09

They don't. It doesn't happen. The idea that this is a thing that we need to legislated to prevent is nothing but a transphobic fantasy.

Edited

YMCA changing room
and no it’s not OK that he can flash people just because he’s too fat

About Gender neutral loo
NeverOneBiscuit · 18/08/2025 14:15

See Tandora? It’s annoying when people deliberately misquote you, or turn your words to mean something else.

Perhaps now you know what it looks like from the other side?

Somehow I doubt it.

Typicalwave · 18/08/2025 14:15

Report her to her employer for overstepping her remit

Tandora · 18/08/2025 14:16

DrPrunesqualer · 18/08/2025 14:14

YMCA changing room
and no it’s not OK that he can flash people just because he’s too fat

Oh great a screenshot from a daily mail article about an incident in Ohio that was rejected in court.

Lol.

Keep going with your "evidence" that this is a thing we need legislation to prevent.

Tandora · 18/08/2025 14:17

NeverOneBiscuit · 18/08/2025 14:15

See Tandora? It’s annoying when people deliberately misquote you, or turn your words to mean something else.

Perhaps now you know what it looks like from the other side?

Somehow I doubt it.

Perhaps now you know what it looks like from the other side?

Eh? I'm literally the only person on this thread that has been a victim of this. Repeatedly, systematically 😂

DrPrunesqualer · 18/08/2025 14:18

Tandora · 18/08/2025 14:03

Trans women who haven't had surgery use private cubicles.

They do not get their cock and balls out in front of people in the female changers.

Youre very wrong
and these are just ones hitting the news!

About Gender neutral loo
NeverOneBiscuit · 18/08/2025 14:19

Oh yes, poor Tandora, gaslight from dawn till dusk.

CohensDiamondTeeth · 18/08/2025 14:19

Tandora · 18/08/2025 13:51

Before it finishes, do you want to provide some evidence of actual physical violence and unlawful discrimination against trans identifying men yet?

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/26895269.2024.2440856#d1e2297

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33600251/

There will be loads more. THis is just the first two hits with an easy google.

Ok from your first link:

Discrimination
When assessing discrimination, we created a sum score representing the number of areas of life where participants experienced discrimination. Participants were asked: “During the last 12 months, have you personally felt discriminated against because of being [RESPONDENT CATEGORY] in any of the following situations?”, with response options of Yes, No, Haven’t done this, and Don’t know. These options were provided for seven distinct domains: “when looking for a job”, “at work”, “when looking for a house or apartment to rent or buy”, “by healthcare or social services personnel”, “by school/university personnel”, “at a café, restaurant, bar or nightclub”, and “at a shop”. We then aggregated the yes responses to form the discrimination variable. Thus, this variable represents the breadth of discrimination experiences, with higher scores (ranging from 0 to 7) indicating exposure to discrimination across more domains, independent of the frequency of occurrences within each domain.

So they asked if people "felt" discriminated against, instead of actually collating recorded or proven instances of actual unlawful discrimination against trans identified males, it is reliant on self reporting of a much wider and more varied group of people.

Violence
Experiences of violence were assessed by the item “In the last 5 years, how many times have you been physically or sexually attacked at home or elsewhere (street, on public transport, at your workplace, etc.) for any reason?” Responses included never (0), once (1), twice (2), 3-5 times (3), 6-10 times (4), more than 10 times (5), and all the time (6). The responses Not sure and Prefer not to say were treated as missing values. A higher score on this variable indicated more instances of exposure to physical or sexual violence.

There is no quantification on what qualifies as "physical violence" here, as we know words are literal violence according to TRA's, and again this is not a study of actual reported incidences of physical violence against trans identified males, it is reliant on self reporting of a much wider and more varied group of people.

Country and national LGBTQ+ rights
Participants selected their current country of residence from a drop-down menu. As an indicator of differences in overall LGBTQ+ rights between countries, we used scores from the Rainbow Europe Country Ranking (ILGA Europe, Citation2019). These scores range from 0% to 100% and compare countries’ legal standards with their European neighbors. The index is constructed by evaluating 72 types of laws and policies within seven categories; equality and nondiscrimination, family, hate crime and hate speech, legal gender recognition, intersex bodily integrity, civil society space, and asylum. Low LGBTQ+ rights scores indicate that a country has substantial violations of human rights and significant discrimination on the basis of sexual and romantic orientation or activity, gender identity, and gender expression. In contrast, high LGBTQ+ rights scores indicate that a country respects human rights and ensures equality through recognition and specific protection of LGBTQ+ people under the law in all areas of society (ILGA Europe, Citation2019).

So not the UK then. This is a very wide ranging (as in open and crowded field), kind of self reporting, not really proper evidence, study isn't it?

I will read the other one too, but am aware the thread is running out.

DrPrunesqualer · 18/08/2025 14:20

Tandora · 18/08/2025 14:16

Oh great a screenshot from a daily mail article about an incident in Ohio that was rejected in court.

Lol.

Keep going with your "evidence" that this is a thing we need legislation to prevent.

Edited

Read the article. Educate yourself. He flashes women in the changing room. You said it doesnt happen

It does
Your knowledge is very limited

BunfightBetty · 18/08/2025 14:20

DrPrunesqualer · 18/08/2025 14:07

As the study you post clearly notes there are limitations
One very clear one, amongst others but not noted as a limitation, within the study but glaringly obvious is those questioned did not have to provide proof. ie police reports. They simply had to state their feelings on whether they were harassed etc
Its also clear that by consistently using the term cis this is a biased study

Anything on police reports and convictions in comparison to male violence against women then.
ie Actual facts with a breakdown of level of harm. I’d assume rape and physical violence is far worse than hurting someone’s feelings for example

Edited

I’d assume rape and physical violence is far worse than hurting someone’s feelings for example

Well yes, any decent person with more than two brain cells at their disposal would assume that with you.

Tandora, on the other hand, is not only enthusiastic for women and girls to face greater risk of being sexually assaulted in the service of validating the feelings of men (presumably those who failed to develop the emotional intelligence to self-validate), but if women dare complain about being shafted in this way, she’ll denounce them as bigots akin to racists to boot.

spannasaurus · 18/08/2025 14:22

Tandora · 18/08/2025 14:14

I literally just googled her name and the swimmers name.

It you have a source that proves your claims about Lia Thomas please do share it.

I will provide a source if you can tell me what single word you use to describe only adult human females excluding all others.

And here is the definition of those words since you insisted I defined them last time I asked
Adult - aged 18 or over
Human= homosapian
Female - of the sex class which produces large immobile gametes

Tandora · 18/08/2025 14:22

DrPrunesqualer · 18/08/2025 14:18

Youre very wrong
and these are just ones hitting the news!

They hit the "news"

  • by "news" we are talking about one incident uploaded on social media concerning a sexual offender not even known to be trans, and one article from daily mail about an incident rejected in court. Both incidents occurring not in the UK 😂^^-

#because they are so extraordinarily exceptional.

CohensDiamondTeeth · 18/08/2025 14:23

CohensDiamondTeeth · 18/08/2025 14:19

Ok from your first link:

Discrimination
When assessing discrimination, we created a sum score representing the number of areas of life where participants experienced discrimination. Participants were asked: “During the last 12 months, have you personally felt discriminated against because of being [RESPONDENT CATEGORY] in any of the following situations?”, with response options of Yes, No, Haven’t done this, and Don’t know. These options were provided for seven distinct domains: “when looking for a job”, “at work”, “when looking for a house or apartment to rent or buy”, “by healthcare or social services personnel”, “by school/university personnel”, “at a café, restaurant, bar or nightclub”, and “at a shop”. We then aggregated the yes responses to form the discrimination variable. Thus, this variable represents the breadth of discrimination experiences, with higher scores (ranging from 0 to 7) indicating exposure to discrimination across more domains, independent of the frequency of occurrences within each domain.

So they asked if people "felt" discriminated against, instead of actually collating recorded or proven instances of actual unlawful discrimination against trans identified males, it is reliant on self reporting of a much wider and more varied group of people.

Violence
Experiences of violence were assessed by the item “In the last 5 years, how many times have you been physically or sexually attacked at home or elsewhere (street, on public transport, at your workplace, etc.) for any reason?” Responses included never (0), once (1), twice (2), 3-5 times (3), 6-10 times (4), more than 10 times (5), and all the time (6). The responses Not sure and Prefer not to say were treated as missing values. A higher score on this variable indicated more instances of exposure to physical or sexual violence.

There is no quantification on what qualifies as "physical violence" here, as we know words are literal violence according to TRA's, and again this is not a study of actual reported incidences of physical violence against trans identified males, it is reliant on self reporting of a much wider and more varied group of people.

Country and national LGBTQ+ rights
Participants selected their current country of residence from a drop-down menu. As an indicator of differences in overall LGBTQ+ rights between countries, we used scores from the Rainbow Europe Country Ranking (ILGA Europe, Citation2019). These scores range from 0% to 100% and compare countries’ legal standards with their European neighbors. The index is constructed by evaluating 72 types of laws and policies within seven categories; equality and nondiscrimination, family, hate crime and hate speech, legal gender recognition, intersex bodily integrity, civil society space, and asylum. Low LGBTQ+ rights scores indicate that a country has substantial violations of human rights and significant discrimination on the basis of sexual and romantic orientation or activity, gender identity, and gender expression. In contrast, high LGBTQ+ rights scores indicate that a country respects human rights and ensures equality through recognition and specific protection of LGBTQ+ people under the law in all areas of society (ILGA Europe, Citation2019).

So not the UK then. This is a very wide ranging (as in open and crowded field), kind of self reporting, not really proper evidence, study isn't it?

I will read the other one too, but am aware the thread is running out.

@Tandora The second study is from the USA from pooled data taken from 2017 and 2018. It's literally in the first paragraph.

Abstract
Objectives. To estimate the prevalence of personal and household victimizations among transgender people in the United States.Methods. We analyzed pooled 2017 and 2018 data from the National Crime Victimization Survey

You may remember that I asked for you to keep to the UK, and to provide actual evidence of recorded instances of physical violence or unlawful discrimination against trans identifying men. I think everyone but you would agree with me that you fell well short of the mark with your offerings.

I'd still be willing to read more, change my mind, and apologise if you care to provide it and are proved correct.

Tandora · 18/08/2025 14:23

DrPrunesqualer · 18/08/2025 14:20

Read the article. Educate yourself. He flashes women in the changing room. You said it doesnt happen

It does
Your knowledge is very limited

So another sexual offender then?

Yes I agree - sexual offenders are bad. We should put them through the criminal justice process.

Nothing to do with the practices of trans women in changing rooms.

Tandora · 18/08/2025 14:25

CohensDiamondTeeth · 18/08/2025 14:23

@Tandora The second study is from the USA from pooled data taken from 2017 and 2018. It's literally in the first paragraph.

Abstract
Objectives. To estimate the prevalence of personal and household victimizations among transgender people in the United States.Methods. We analyzed pooled 2017 and 2018 data from the National Crime Victimization Survey

You may remember that I asked for you to keep to the UK, and to provide actual evidence of recorded instances of physical violence or unlawful discrimination against trans identifying men. I think everyone but you would agree with me that you fell well short of the mark with your offerings.

I'd still be willing to read more, change my mind, and apologise if you care to provide it and are proved correct.

You are tiring. Some more for you.
www.cps.gov.uk/crime-info/hate-crime/context-and-characteristics-hostility-towards-sexual-orientation-and-transgender-identity#:~:text=Research%20indicates%20that%2062%25%20%2D%2073,behaviour%2C%20physical%20and%20sexual%20assault.

NeverOneBiscuit · 18/08/2025 14:25

Absolutely no way Tandora isn’t aware of the evidence of the female swimmers who were forced to share a changing room with the man calling himself Lia Thomas.

Particularly awful for them as their skin tight suits take about 10 mins (could be longer, I can’t recall) to get into. The filmed sessions are on YouTube, the women’s distress is horrible to witness.

They were told when they complained about William Thomas changing with them that they’d lose their place on the team. Something they’d worked their entire lives for.

DrPrunesqualer · 18/08/2025 14:26

I see Virgin Active are now back to complying with the law on single sex spaces

CohensDiamondTeeth · 18/08/2025 14:28

Tandora · 18/08/2025 13:59

I didn't understand most of this incoherent waffle.

You were clearly advocating for the concealment of biological sex from medics.

Nope. I wasn't "advocating" for "concealment". Nowhere did I say this. I said nothing of the sort. 😂😂

I was saying that trans people have a right to privacy, and many chose to exercise this, as is their right.

This goes for all people, it's a basic human right - it's literally in the law. The right to privacy.

Edited

The right to privacy is fine but you were clearly meaning in the context of not disclosing their biological sex to medics.

I mean it's right there in your own words for all to see, and they can even go read the whole thread (should they wish to torture/amuse themselves) to get your expanded perspective on the subject.

We can agree to disagree and leave it there if you want, I don't mind. I'm still right though 😂

NeverOneBiscuit · 18/08/2025 14:28

Yes, great news about Virgin. Shame they had to be threatened with Court action.

DrPrunesqualer · 18/08/2025 14:28

Tandora · 18/08/2025 14:23

So another sexual offender then?

Yes I agree - sexual offenders are bad. We should put them through the criminal justice process.

Nothing to do with the practices of trans women in changing rooms.

You said. Transwomen don’t flash their genitalia
They do

DrPrunesqualer · 18/08/2025 14:29

NeverOneBiscuit · 18/08/2025 14:28

Yes, great news about Virgin. Shame they had to be threatened with Court action.

I agree
but it’s something and proves there is no way in law that men are allowed in women’s changing rooms.

Tandora · 18/08/2025 14:29

CohensDiamondTeeth · 18/08/2025 14:28

The right to privacy is fine but you were clearly meaning in the context of not disclosing their biological sex to medics.

I mean it's right there in your own words for all to see, and they can even go read the whole thread (should they wish to torture/amuse themselves) to get your expanded perspective on the subject.

We can agree to disagree and leave it there if you want, I don't mind. I'm still right though 😂

Yes my words are there for all to see. Thank god, as they say nothing like you are claiming.

😅

Bonkers.

NeverOneBiscuit · 18/08/2025 14:31

Yes, agreed, it’s an important win. Doubtless there’ll be others who think they can ignore the SC ruling. Pay day for the lawyers!

BunfightBetty · 18/08/2025 14:32

Tandora · 18/08/2025 14:23

So another sexual offender then?

Yes I agree - sexual offenders are bad. We should put them through the criminal justice process.

Nothing to do with the practices of trans women in changing rooms.

🤦‍♀️

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