To be so annoyed about the dangers of being a woman?

[Givemeanamethen]

I like to run or go for long walks. I ususally listen to music or books or whatever.

There are some lovely long circular routes near me through woods and along streams. I do do them, but am always slightly on edge because it’s so big that you can go a while without seeing anyone, and if I pass a man I can’t help but think ‘if I was attacked here no one would hear’. I try and do these at busy times, be finished before it starts getting dark and I’d never do it in the rain because of how quiet it would be. It irritates me that men, of course, won’t have to consider any of this.

Tonight, I didn’t have time to go there so did a four mile route from my house. It’s pretty and got a ruralise atmosphere but the roads are relatively busy, for a Sunday night, and there are plenty of houses. I don’t ususally worry at all on this route.

But this evening, some fucking dickhead cycled up behind me, on the path instead of the road, and shouted right in my ear, clearly to try and frighten me and embarrass me, then he and his friend cycled away.

I’m so angry that I can’t even go on a walk without men getting a buzz out of harassing me.

Not even really sure what my AIBU is but I’m so angry that I could cry.

No it’s not minimising any thing the OP said, he concurred with all of it except for her minimising by denying the existence of the same evidence based concerns amongst men.

I don’t care if he comes back or not, I care about women not being scaremongered into not living their best lives,

Because it's irrelevant.

That male on male violence is more prevalent does NOT mean male risk is the same as female risk. This thread, is about MALE ON FEMALE violence and harassment. We don't need men sticking their beak in thank you very much!

So he may well have not realised how triggering his response would be.

Oh come on! Unless he was raised on a deserted island, he should have enough awareness to not go on about male on male violence, on a thread about male on female violence! You'd have to be a complete idiot as a male to make it about your experience.

Nah, you have an agenda for sure, but it's not making women feel better.

Hope he picks you🤞

Yes! I'm remembering so much now. Never reported any of it. The guy strangling me publicly because I said ewww to his advances, never reported.

Some gross guy flashed his dick in a video shop to a few of us at aged 15. We screamed in disgust also half laughing and ran off. Local shop keeper touched me up at age 14, I smacked him and that was the end of that. A 25 year old trying to encourage me to have sex with him when I was 14, ignored that too.

A guy in the tube cornered me and got his dick out. He was stopped by the transport police who were well positioned as he followed me up the escalator. The Police tried to shove me away follow up wise. So I doubt much happened there to that guy.

There will be so much more. A horrible drunk abusive male sibling standing over me with a fist to my face threatening to punch me in my home for telling him to stop shouting at the football. Ignored that too. He's however not going to be back in my life. I have none in my sphere any more and it's wonderful.

I'd never be off the phone ten plus years ago quite frankly I agere with you

There is no evidence men are more likely to be attacked in public.

And we don't give a fuck about men being attacked. That's what you don't get. We are not interested. This thread is about male on FEMALE violence. Start your own thread to whinge about 'what about the menz!'.

And re-read the OP's first post. Nowhere did she talk about male on male violence. She NEVER MENTIONED IT!!

Yes she did
”There are some lovely long circular routes near me through woods and along streams. I do do them, but am always slightly on edge because it’s so big that you can go a while without seeing anyone, and if I pass a man I can’t help but think ‘if I was attacked here no one would hear’. I try and do these at busy times, be finished before it starts getting dark and I’d never do it in the rain because of how quiet it would be. It irritates me that men, of course, won’t have to consider any of this.”

Again…so you don’t miss it…
It irritates me that men, of course, won’t have to consider any of this.

It’s exactly what he did.

Many of us here will be aware that boys/men can be at risk of things from other men. I have a young adult son and I do worry when he goes on a night out for example, BUT, the dangers are different, their experiences are different and it isn’t what the thread is about. I have talked about my worries for my son, but not on this thread because it would be minimising OPs and other women’s concerns to do so. Some men are so entitled though, that they don’t realise that, or they do and they don’t care. And some women have been so conditioned to always consider how the men would feel, so they tell us we’re wrong for having an issue with men not being centred.

I'm sure he understands.

If he understood, he never would have talked about himself being attacked, on a thread about females being attacked, to begin with. His lack of self awareness is unbelievable.

Just as I wouldn't go on a thread about African Americans being killed by cops and saying 'oh yeah I know what that's like as a white person because the cops pulled me over too' - it's fucking tone deaf!

A male will never, ever, ever, EVER understand how vulnerable females are to attacks. More vulnerable and in more ways than any male ever will be. So can the mean please go away and stay out of the thread and leave us the hell alone to talk about male on female violence, without doing a monologue about themselves? Read the room.

He mentioned it in passing,,,god you just don’t like men posting. He did nothing wrong and he wasn’t an idiot, you’re just looking to be offended.

No one gives a f*ck about the man's experience. It's irrelevant. This thread is about WOMENS experience.

Do you understand that yet?

I'm not buying any references to statistics on male violence. How do they categorise the multiple cases of women being terrified and threatened by men, even with no violence? They won't be comparing that like for like in this statistical analysis.

Just look at a few examples I provide, never reported. We women know this truth, the stats may say male violence xyz, that means shit to me. These are different things.

The threat, the undercurrent, the entitlement and the worldview are the source of fear for many who see it. We have no stats on these. We have excellent instincts instead so I'll go with them now.

Isn’t it so depressing when you start thinking about it all stretching out over the years?

Interesting what you say about the transport police. The time a man tried to put his hand up my dress on a train was one of the only times I did ring the police. I didn’t know at the time that transport police existed, I was just concerned he’d get off at the same place as me and it was late, so I just rang the police. Next thing a woman turned up to bollock me because I hadn’t rang the transport police, and then I got off to be met my police who took a statement and said they’d be in touch and then not one thing happened.

When my cousin’s friend grabbed my breasts in a pub one night my mam told my auntie, and my auntie’s reaction was to tell me not to tell my male cousin because he’d be really angry with his friend. We cannot have men getting angry, can we?

Rape is not about attractiveness, it's about POWER. You being sexually unattractive and somewhat invisible is irrelevant to the fact men don't rape based on looks. Elderly women are raped by boys/young men for example.

Ah you can’t amount a logical rebuttal, so you resort to impugning my character as having “an agenda” and using the ‘pick me girl’ insult the 21st century version of calling someone a total slag who panders to men.

Femnists don’t tear down other women like you do,

👍

I am well aware of this. I have caveat an initial post highlighting the fact women are vulnerable simply by being women.

The sexually aggressive incidents are as a reality not impacting me any more. I know that's because I'm invisible. I know when I walk down the street, for me it's less likely. I'm not thinking about rape. I'm thinking about public sexual acts. The examples I referenced in the last post - I'm quite sure my attractiveness was highly relevant. And no - that is not putting responsibility on attractive women. It says for me, actually, I feel safer now. I believe many women do. The total threat is of course not removed. It's absolutely out there for all women in different guises and alot to do with opportunity.

Attractiveness does feature in this imo. There are males who are angry and resentful specifically towards women who might embody what they want, feel entitled to and can't just ' have'.

I agree. If I was 6”2 and a man I wouldn’t have bit my tongue and ignored the man who screamed in my ear and frightened me tonight. Fear of what would happen overrode my anger.

But if I’d felt equally matched I’d have torn him off the bike. I felt like doing it tonight, I was so angry. But I would have come off worse. So, that’s not reported. But if I’d been a man and pulled him off the bike and fought, which I wanted to do and would’ve loved to have done, that probably would’ve been spotted and police called. And it’s recorded.

Of course, if I was a 6”2 man no one would have come up behind me to scare me for a laugh, I’d have finished my run in peace, probably in the wood because I wouldn’t care about the sun setting, and this thread would not exist.

I give a fuck about it as do many other posters. Perhaps stop policing other women and what we give a fuck about? Especially since the OP introduced the experience of men as part of her first post. If it was forbidden to discuss, she shouldn’t have included it.

Don’t you understand if you don’t want to discuss an element of the OP’s post you can just ignore those parts of the thread?

It’s against the mumsnet guidelines to berate and intimidate posters who are responding to the OP’s posts in good faith.

I will do too from now on. I'm just shocked at the absolute gall of these men coming on here, butting in and telling us, despite all the statistics, that men are more at threat.

Men don't have to;

So you imagining what you would do if you were a 6’ 2” man carries more weight than what an actual 6’ 2” man has posted about even though he tries to avoid violence he does worry because in his experience there are men who target him specifically because he is big and so they’d get more kudos for taking him down? Not much bragging power for beating up a 5’3” weed with glasses…

I’m not a man. I’ve repeated this a few times. It’s offensive to keep referring to biological women as men simply because we are fact checking some of the statements made in the thread,

Yep. It will not cross the mind of men to do or be aware of these things, and yet we must only be aware of these things because of men.

I have trained my daughter and sons to do every single one of the things mentioned.
They have also been trained to know what to do in a street fight or attack or home invasion.
It may not make any difference, or it may save their lives one day.
I don't see it as living in fear, but as assuming responsibility for their own safety, rather than assuming this will be done for them by other people.
On a slightly different note, following the Idaho and Delphi and Devil's Den cases has firmed my decision to find a family protection dog sooner rather than later.

I wish we could carry mace spray in this country.
There are so many places I wouldn't walk unless accompanied. Males can never fully appreciate the constant sense of unease/threat that women feel.