To be so annoyed about the dangers of being a woman?

[Givemeanamethen]

I like to run or go for long walks. I ususally listen to music or books or whatever.

There are some lovely long circular routes near me through woods and along streams. I do do them, but am always slightly on edge because it’s so big that you can go a while without seeing anyone, and if I pass a man I can’t help but think ‘if I was attacked here no one would hear’. I try and do these at busy times, be finished before it starts getting dark and I’d never do it in the rain because of how quiet it would be. It irritates me that men, of course, won’t have to consider any of this.

Tonight, I didn’t have time to go there so did a four mile route from my house. It’s pretty and got a ruralise atmosphere but the roads are relatively busy, for a Sunday night, and there are plenty of houses. I don’t ususally worry at all on this route.

But this evening, some fucking dickhead cycled up behind me, on the path instead of the road, and shouted right in my ear, clearly to try and frighten me and embarrass me, then he and his friend cycled away.

I’m so angry that I can’t even go on a walk without men getting a buzz out of harassing me.

Not even really sure what my AIBU is but I’m so angry that I could cry.

Not ageist at all.

It's true.

He has grown up in an era where he has absolutely been centred in everything, and that shone through in his post to the op, and now he has successfully derailed a thread about ops valid concerns with all the people jumping on to berate op and tell him what a good boy he is, and so super brave, so has, in fact successfully centred himself.

when it comes to going for a run it is men who are more at risk.

Total and absolute shite. What are men on a run at risk of exactly?

The statistics are not about men on a run. It’s about men in pubs, on nights out, on public transport. They are not fearful of going on a run ffs.

This is why I feel safe. I tick every category really.

I'm sexually unattractive and somewhat invisible and at the same time now feel free. Hormonally I'm not interested any more so for me this is a happy place.

I have after long term therapy no contacted the abusive male sibling in my life approaches 2 years now.

My teenage son is somewhat difficult due to ND status and black and white thinking, yet I am co parenting part time.

I generally have a very safe sphere and feel incredibly lucky. I would feel incredibly stressed out to be a young attractive female tbh. It's not all sunshine and roses from what I see. The entitlement feels horrible now we have all these vehicles to hear it ( TV, SMedia nonsense).

Same here. 90% of murdered women are by IPV.
Most of these women will have been repeatedly raped before the escalation to murder.

That is where we are most vulnerable and should be most angry about imho too.

Yep, absolutely 100% this.

If I go running or walking with someone it’s much safer and you don’t have to be as alert, but it takes away the pleasure of being alone and being able to listen to music or an audiobook. Not something men have to think about.

I’m on Strava and a man I’m friends with has just downloaded it and asked if I’d been to X because he’d been at 5am to watch the sunset and recommended it. I told him I’d never ever walk there alone in the dark but envied that he could. Being a decent man, he replied to say he understood that and often thought about it when he walks home from the pub a couple of miles away - that he can do it but his wife and, in the future his daughters, would never.

Is this an era in which you actually existed? If not you really don't know.

Sorry but it was ageist, because it was like a punch in the stomach to me (being the same age) when I was just going to post to sympathise with the original poster. It told me and probably others my age to probably stay out of it as middle age isn't wanted (along with male).

You know the problem here is bad people, not age, not sex or gender.

It is possible to talk to some men and help them see how it is still different for a female (and I absolutely agree that it is) without laying into them. Because doing that is actually helping to make this whole situation in our society worse. How do I know, because I've existed for a long time now and seen the changes.

Telling a 6”2 16 stone man that his situation is absolutely not the same as a woman’s is making the situation worse? Come on now.

This thread is not to ‘help men’.

Women shouldn't be fearful either. Posts like this just feed into the fear. The chances of you being attacked on a run are very, very slim.

I’m sorry you were dismissed , @Yabberwok your feelings, observations and opinions are just as valid as anyone else’s. Unfortunately Mumsnet is a bit of a bubble where the mantra is ‘women good, men bad’!

While both men and women can be victims of crime at night, women are statistically more likely to experience feelings of unsafety and are disproportionately affected by certain types of violence. However, when it comes to violent crime overall, men are more likely to be victims.

Here's a more detailed breakdown:

• Perceptions of safety:
• A significant number of women report feeling unsafe walking alone at night, even in busy public places, according to the Office for National Statistics. This disparity in perceived safety is particularly pronounced in areas like parks and open spaces after dark.
• Violent crime:
• While women are more likely to experience feelings of unsafety, men are more likely to be victims of violent crime in general. In the year ending March 2020, 2% of men experienced assault compared to 1.3% of women.
• Specific types of violence:
• Women are more likely to be victims of domestic violence and sexual assault, often at the hands of someone they know. However, men are more likely to be victims of violent crime overall.
• Age and location:
• Younger women, particularly between the ages of 12 and 18, are more vulnerable to violence in public spaces, especially in urban centers at night.
• Individual experiences:
• It's important to remember that statistics represent trends and don't define individual experiences. Both men and women can be victims of violence, and personal experiences can vary greatly.

In conclusion: While both men and women can be targeted by criminals at night, women are more likely to experience fear and anxiety related to their personal safety, and are also more likely to be victims of domestic violence and sexual assault. However, men are more likely to be victims of violent crime overall.

Fuck me, we’ve been invaded. MRA night out is it?

I'm not far off that age myself, so I really do know.

No need for the dramatic "like a punch in the stomach" comment because I made a comment about a middle age MAN - emphasis on the MAN part - minimising ops experience and centring himself.

Unless you happen to be a middle age man. However I still stand by what I said.

Some (few) have done the work on themselves, but this man in particular clearly hasn't.

He didn’t minimise OP’s experience of fear and he did not centre himself.

@JLou08 I hear your point. I can't say the fear is that every jogging woman will be raped and murdered.

The fear I talk of is knowing that there's a mentality and an undercurrent that so many, shall I say most men have that's quite unpalatable. This post and the example provided gives an overt example and expression of this.

The older I got, the more men in my life I started to truly ' see', the more I have thought, what actually lurks underneath here and on what level of the scale are you? The fear is not simply at the higher end regards men physically assaulting or intentionally scaring ( but also the lower level mindset and worldview of so many men). That scares me!

How many men think this example OP provides is no big deal, thus undermineing the reality which is this sense most of us have that men can be scary to us by their mere bloody entitlement before we even get to next level behaviour.

Look how many men raped Mrs Pelicot because they thought they'd get away with it. There are too many examples that might demonstrate a greater undercurrent of entitled than wed like to accept. How far that could go behaviour wise, that part I don't know statistically.

Wtf are you capable of with your entitlement and privilege - that's the thought that evokes any fear in me. Fortunately I don't have many dealings that bring me in contact or to their attention.

It is possible to talk to some men and help them see how it is still different for a female (and I absolutely agree that it is) without laying into them. Because doing that is actually helping to make this whole situation in our society worse. How do I know, because I've existed for a long time now and seen the changes.

Fuck me, it’s now our job to make random men see how it is different. How about they work it out for themselves and not rely on women to do yet another thing for them? My partner and son don’t need me and my daughter explaining it to them, they have worked it out from what they have seen with their own eyes and not minimising it.

🤣 ok, so trying to help a fellow woman overcome her fears and anxieties by pointing out the facts say that she is fearful due to a perception not based on reality so she hopefully gets her confidence and life back to do the runs/walks she likes is some sort of “MRA” fuckery?

You know real MRAs would be telling OP damn right you are in extreme danger going out alone, a woman should never leave the house without an armed male guardian to escort you, Taliban style.

This post was started because two men came up behind me on a rural path with no one about and screamed in my ear.

I’ve had my breasts grabbed walking home from work.

I’ve had a man film up my dress whilst sunbathing in a park.

I’ve had a man try and put his hand up my skirt whilst waiting for the toilet to become free on a train.

This is not rare stuff, it happens all of the time. There are many more examples I could give, as I’m sure the majority of women could.

This survey found that two thirds of women runners have been harassed whilst running.

The study found the most common type of abuse was verbal abuse, with 58% of female respondents saying they had experienced it; 19% of women also reported being followed while out running and 7% reported being flashed at.

One in five have been followed. Almost one in 15 flashed.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/feb/22/two-thirds-of-women-get-harassed-while-running-england-survey-finds?utm_source=chatgpt.com

It is a real issue, a real concern and a real fear.

A 6ft 2 bloke coming onto a thread about violence and harrassment towards women and saying "yeah, same here" is absolutely centring himself.

Why would he come onto a thread about the dangers of being a woman and compare experiences? He has no idea about the dangers of being a woman. But he successfully derailed and his his cheering squad so I daresay he's happy now.

He said “same here” about his daughters.

He then said while it was different for him as a man, he has been a victim of attacks so synoathised with the OP over the fear aspect

The thread OP started wasn’t just about women, she included men by saying she was irritated that men “never have to worry” about their safety when going out in rural areas,

He came on this thread because
a) he has an idea of the dangers to women because he has a wife and daughters and
b) he was responding to OP’s comments on men and how men feel to say his view on how he feels as a man.

I recall a friend of mine got fingered at the bar one night. It was about 8 pm, she was stood there in a summery floaty skirt. The guys behind us were beasts. In seconds one has rammed his finger into her from behind. She screamed, we both screamed at them. It was 25 years ago. No we didn't report it. Of course not because it was ten a fucking penny!

One guys mate stuck his finger up my ass and sniffed it on a second date on a nightclub dancefloor when I was 25! Vile.

Very many men are bloody disgusting and entitled and gross. And the threat to women is quite unique.

I'd like to know how sexual violence and domestic violence is categorised ( if ever reported which I would say often it won't be).

There's no way statistically that male violence outnumbers the incidents of physical, sexual abuse to women imo. No way. It's simply not being reflected in the stats.

These men/foxes can DEFEND THEMSELVES better than females can. They can OVERPOWER females easier than females can overpower them. So again, WRONG. This thread is about MALE ON FEMALE violence and abuse. If you want to start a male on male one, no one is stopping you. But STOP with the 'oh what about the menz' bullshit. Us women have had e fucking nough with threads about MALE ON FEMALE being derailed by the penis-panderers.

And re-read the OP's first post. Nowhere did she talk about male on male violence. She NEVER MENTIONED IT!!

but it's not just a female problem.

Is absolutely minimising what ops saying.

But carry on, I'm sure he will come back and thank you for leaping to his defense.

Those experiences are awful.

100% agree with you. My boss, who I actually love and really get on well with, after I told him about my breasts being grabbed walking home from work said I should’ve reported it. We had quite an argument because he was saying every incident like this should be reported. I, very angrily probably, tried to explain that it’s so common you can’t ring the police and say ‘I was walking along the road and some man I’ve never seen and wouldn't recognise again quickly grabbed my nipples’.

We would never be off the phone.

It is my opinion that misogyny is not a hate crime because the country simply couldn’t cope with the sheer number.

👏

That’s why I’m ignoring them. They add nothing whatsoever to the conversation. They just want attention and an argument.

We don't need a male saying 'I feel threatened too', thank you very much. It is TONE DEAF! He could have empathised with us women, without going on about his experience. We don't care about males experience with violence. I certainly could not care less. I only care about male on female violence. I am not interested in some male's tone deaf 'me too!' contribution. He should have the sense to stay well out of the thread.

And he should have STOPPED THERE. We didn't need his tone deaf 'me too' contribution. This thread is about male on female violence/harassment. Not male on male.