To be so annoyed about the dangers of being a woman?

[Givemeanamethen]

I like to run or go for long walks. I ususally listen to music or books or whatever.

There are some lovely long circular routes near me through woods and along streams. I do do them, but am always slightly on edge because it’s so big that you can go a while without seeing anyone, and if I pass a man I can’t help but think ‘if I was attacked here no one would hear’. I try and do these at busy times, be finished before it starts getting dark and I’d never do it in the rain because of how quiet it would be. It irritates me that men, of course, won’t have to consider any of this.

Tonight, I didn’t have time to go there so did a four mile route from my house. It’s pretty and got a ruralise atmosphere but the roads are relatively busy, for a Sunday night, and there are plenty of houses. I don’t ususally worry at all on this route.

But this evening, some fucking dickhead cycled up behind me, on the path instead of the road, and shouted right in my ear, clearly to try and frighten me and embarrass me, then he and his friend cycled away.

I’m so angry that I can’t even go on a walk without men getting a buzz out of harassing me.

Not even really sure what my AIBU is but I’m so angry that I could cry.

That poster didn't insinuate that at all. In fact she specifically said the opposite.

She said that this thread which was directed to the female sex (women - it's in the title) about the experiences of women, it is not the place for discussions of the experience of men.

If anyone wants to start a thread about male violence in general or how male violence specifically affects men, they can do.

And I can pretty much guarantee there will be far fewer "but what about women" posts on there than there are "what about men" posts in here.

Women are allowed to care about our problems and not have to include men. We're the ones being subjected to their violence. Men need to sort out other men, if they listened to us it wouldn't be an issue, would it?

'men are over twice as likely to experience violence from a man'

There you go, fixed that for you.

You have to seriously question why a man would come onto a thread like this, derail the conversation and make it all about them.

I would never get on a thread about disability and say that I also find it problematic to navigate ableist spaces.

Derailment of threads is only possible if other posters engage with them. They fade away if ignored.

You’re right.

I go walks all the time including at night and I have never felt scared or worried about my safety. It really is an eye opener that a lot of women are scared of going out

Absolutely this.

And if black feminists feel - as I know some do - that white women's feminism is not for them, and some actively scorn it for precisely that reason, then that is a question on which white feminists need to be doing some serious self-reflection. This isn't a problem that the labour of black women should be expected to fix, just as misogyny isn't a problem women created - and is too-often one for which we are expected to take responsibility (cf. victim-blaming and this thread). It was also the original observation Kimberle Crenshaw made on intersectionality, albeit this term has been hijacked by other causes not related either to women or to race.

Notwithstanding, women have tried to find at least part-solutions to the ever-rising issue of VAWG by providing women-only shelters and much-needed support - none of which would be necessary if men didn't constantly stalk, assault, rape and murder women on a 2-3 per week basis. And see what happened to those. We've had to go all the way up to the supreme court to maintain even a semblance of autonomy over those hard fought-for spaces.

When it comes to VAWG, even the right to run or walk down the street unencumbered as men seem incapable of allowing us to do, it's hardly surprising that when a women's support site initiates a frank discussion on the above, men's uninformed input on how they think they are far worse off is not welcome. Start your own thread.

But it isn't the case, as you'd know if you'd properly read the post to which you are responding before committing an idiocy in typeface.

In any case, it's irrelevant. This thread is about the specific dangers of being female.

I’m not downplaying it, but there is a difference between getting leered at, shouted at and verbally intimidated, to being shouted at, beaten up or killed, which men are more likely to have happen to them.

I’m not downplaying what women go through. I am a woman. I’ve had my arse slapped by someone in a group of men as my friend and I walked through an underpass in broad daylight. I’ve been leered at and had young men try to chat me up most days on the way back to my house while at uni one year. But saying women experience this multiple times a week, I guess women as a whole will. What age range? How long are we talking? From puberty to middle age? For a select number of years? How can you make that statement?

The majority of individual women in the U.K. aren’t being targeted and experiencing this multiple times a week. It’s not downplaying it, it’s factual. It’s shit that women and girls, men and boys are targeted for anything, especially violence. Men don’t get the sexual undertones a fraction of what women do, obviously, but many are fearful if they are alone and approached by groups of other men. Why is that offensive to you?

"A life lived in fear is a life half lived." -Fran, Strictly Ballroom

"Feminists have argued that the emphasis upon women as targets for attack funcions as an instrument of social control. The object is not protectiveness but the engenderment and maintenance of fearfulness." Germaine Greer, The Whole Woman

The lens should remain on men, without a doubt.
But until that happens, you won't find me wearing headphones when out and about and definitely not walking alone in isolated locations.
I am physically intimidating, but I won't endanger myself because I "should" be able to do this.
The awful fact is that solitary women are automatic targets for male violence. Female violence possibly, but that doesn't bother me.
I am deeply happy that most men are protective and will defend a woman in trouble.

I don't think it's offensive, per se, more unnecessary.

Why does it make some women so uncomfortable to discuss the female experience without referring to men, including men or saying that men have it worse? What is wrong with women just acknowledging women's experiences?

Let's say, for arguments sake, that you are objectively correct and men do have it worse and women just don't know how good we have it, it would still be ok for women to discuss the female experience without reference to men.

And, tbh, if a man started a thread somewhere after an unpleasant experience because he wanted to discuss the male experience of male violence, how appropriate or necessary do you think it would it be for women to post saying, "What about women?" Or how likely do you think it would that other men would shut him down and sneer at him because women have it worse?

It just wouldn't happen.

I’ve dealt with everything from being leered at to being touched inappropriately, hands up skirt etc from when I was 11. I am now 45. The leering and comments are still at least weekly occurrences. Basically any time I go out whether it’s to the supermarket, for a run or a night out. Being touched inappropriately was more often when I was in my teens and 20s in clubs and using public transport after nights out, although it has continued to happen less often, but still too often to me whilst out running and once on a train on a family day out. I’ve also dealt with sexual harassment at work. Every single one of my female friends have the same experiences. I’m not unique, this is happening to women all the time.

eta my mum is 70 and still gets comments from men, usually 60+. She gets disgusting comments when she rides her bike. WTF is wrong with these men. It’s never ending.

Actually the stranger thing is relevant to this thread. Some women may be safer out running in the dark/in lonely areas because their so-called loved ones abuse them at home.

Some men may be abused at home too.

But women are far more likely to be attacked outside their homes than men are. And for the avoidance of doubt I agree that they are vanishingly unlikely to be attacked by a woman.

What is it that’s driving you to need to talk about men on this thread? Start your own thread about men for fuck’s sake.

Still a massive OP attitude over here I see.

Damn those men for breathing.

Is it really actually impossible for women to have a conversation about things that affect women, without speaking about men? Is that so unreasonable that you can’t accept it?

If this were a conversation about hysterectomies would we need to find a way to include men in that too, just so they don’t feel they’re missing out on the opportunity to talk about how someone else’s uterus and experience of having one removed affects them?

This thread was about violence against women and girls, the only part men have to play in that is as the aggressors. If this was a thread about violence towards people then men would be part of the demographic and relevant to the conversation.

Fucking Hell! I couldn’t give a singular fuck about my attitude. Stop worshiping men.

I think it’s born of a psychological belief that if they defend men men won’t hurt them.

😂

What a drama llama.

Definitely not.

I just don’t agree with your opinion and have the same right as you to voice it on this thread.

Sorry 🤷‍♀️

As someone who has been attacked a few times in my life - three times by total strangers and twice by men I knew, I wonder if the reason that more men are attacked while on their own at night is because women do not give men the opportunity to do this to them by not walking around on their own at night. Someone told me about an academic whose PhD thesis was about walking at night. Many women ( apart from a few posters purporting to be women on this thread) do not walk around on their own late at night.

oh, I just remembered that I was attacked on the street one night - by my exh. When I was younger I was groped by a man in front of other men. I was so shocked I didn’t know what to do. Around that time I was also groped by a boss at work. Not to mention what happened to me when I was a child.

The only contribution men should be making to this discussion is to explain what they are doing to stop other men from creating an unsafe world for women.

You absolutely are.

But why bother? Wouldn’t you have a better time down the pub with your male friends?