To be so annoyed about the dangers of being a woman?

[Givemeanamethen]

I like to run or go for long walks. I ususally listen to music or books or whatever.

There are some lovely long circular routes near me through woods and along streams. I do do them, but am always slightly on edge because it’s so big that you can go a while without seeing anyone, and if I pass a man I can’t help but think ‘if I was attacked here no one would hear’. I try and do these at busy times, be finished before it starts getting dark and I’d never do it in the rain because of how quiet it would be. It irritates me that men, of course, won’t have to consider any of this.

Tonight, I didn’t have time to go there so did a four mile route from my house. It’s pretty and got a ruralise atmosphere but the roads are relatively busy, for a Sunday night, and there are plenty of houses. I don’t ususally worry at all on this route.

But this evening, some fucking dickhead cycled up behind me, on the path instead of the road, and shouted right in my ear, clearly to try and frighten me and embarrass me, then he and his friend cycled away.

I’m so angry that I can’t even go on a walk without men getting a buzz out of harassing me.

Not even really sure what my AIBU is but I’m so angry that I could cry.

Yes this was absolutely nothing at all like that. As I quite clearly said in my OP, it was men on bikes on the pavement instead of on a perfectly good duel carriageway who waited until he was right behind me to scream ‘boo’ right in my ear, intentionally to frighten me.

They were not cyclists out for exercise.

Sorry to be harsh but I explained very clearly that he was intentionally trying to scare me so I’m not sure how it’s anything like you describe.

I don't hate men either

But I do understand the fear of some women.

I think the initial male poster got a hard time because the thread title was about women and he jumped in straightaway with a "men too" comment.

Men are always welcome to participate in a general discussion about male violence because that is something that affects both men and women and men need to be part of the solution but, in this thread, the OP wanted to discuss women's experiences of it and how it presents directly related to women.

The first male poster (however unintentionally) shut her down by talking about his experience as a man. And was joined by other posters who said they were more concerned for their son's safety than their daughter's.

Whether I or anyone else agrees with everything the OP or anyone else has said is irrelevant. Women are allowed to have their voices heard without also including men. Because, otherwise, it starts to look a little bit like women's experiences/concerns/fears are only valid if they are also shared by men but can equally be shut down if they are also shared by men.

It doesn't matter whether men feel just as threatened; sometimes threatened; rarely threatened; never threatened or the frequency of that perceived threat. The threat to women and the impact of that threat (whether perceived or real) isn't balanced/cancelled out, negated nor supported by whether men experience it too.

And it happens a lot.

I read an interview with a woman a few years ago who had set up some initiative to support vulnerable women. She was contacted with rape threats, threats of violence and aggressive questions of "What about men?"

The irony was that she (and other women) had previously set up similar support networks for men but there were no men to be seen then. No men wanting to offer their expertise or support. No men volunteering to be part of the solution. But they came out in force to castigate her when she did something for women.

You really are just being shitty to posters for no reason other than your own bad damn attitude.

Fucking hell, how tedious can you get?

The above didn’t deserve it.

I don’t hide away. I adjust my behaviour and assess any risks - as do many, many women. So, when thinking where to walk, I assess lots of things - one being safety and potential risk.

It seems certain walks are magnets to predators. I reported one man myself (different area) and when I did, the police said that certain men home in on seemingly safe walks that are popular with women because a) there are usually just women and young children there; and b) because it’s a ‘safe’ walk, no-one is expecting trouble and can be too relaxed and not on alert.

You do, though. You refuse to walk one way because an attack happened there once.
You then say the first thought in your head is "fucking men" and curtail your movements due to that.

Of course. But there is good reason why some women are scared.

And telling them that there is no reason to be or that they are letting the "bad guys" win (which some posters have repeatedly done on this thread) is potentially patronising or could be considered as attempts at gaslighting.

You're not. I, and many of the females I socialise/work with, also feel this way; it is something we have discussed regularly. It also needs to be considered that work-wise, I work in an area where I often see the worst in people - think dealing with violence, DV, etc, and I still dont feel the fear that many women do on this thread.

Maybe working in the line of work I do and the exposure it brings allows me to consider the statistics and manage risk and awareness differently, I dont know.

But generally, I do feel very concerned about some of the views on this post; it's quite unsettling how some perceive risk and fear as a female. Whilst understandable in many respects, and valid. Managing those fears and risks to safety is essential; not managing fear and risk correctly can have a debilitating effect on the quality of your life, it can make you angry and also affect the view you have of certain situations. Many situations you believe to be risky may not be as they appear, but this needs a particular mindset and other skills to assess possible risk effectively - maybe this is where my job becomes useful and why those not exposed to similar experiences may struggle.

I also worry that some hold on to the fear so much that they can not consider a different viewpoint and can become angry and disrespectful. On that note, I also think a man's perspective is valid, and we should talk about it to understand each other's perspectives and the bigger picture.

We can't tackle personal safety in public spaces without both sexes being involved.

Bracing myself................................

I agree with this. I am very surprised about the number of posters trying to claim that there is nothing to be afraid of, or that men are statistically more at risk of violence so there is comparatively nothing for women to be afraid of - what are they complaining about? Let's centre the men instead!

There is low level aggression towards and intimidation of women everywhere, I don't know why so many posters are in denial. It doesn't get picked up in the crime stats because most women know there is no point reporting this - the threat of violence always lies behind it but it may not be regarded as actual crime.

I still remember meeting my DH after the first (& the only) time he was propositioned in the street by a woman. He was shaking - shocked, disgusted, really upset. I was sympathetic but I couldn't help thinking that it was just a taster of what women are routinely subjected to; not exactly the same though as he wasn't physically intimidated the way women are. Whereas I have had one bad, scary or degrading experience after another from men in my lifetime starting when I was groped aged 11. Bad experiences over and over and over again.

I’ve had this discussion with my DH and DS on occasions and it’s never entered their heads to be wary or scared at the times I have been. Thankfully they understand that as a shorter and less physically strong person than them I am generally more vulnerable, and they don’t dismiss my fears.

That's reminded me.

I went to the pub with my partner a couple of years ago. He came out of the gents looking similarly flustered, uncomfortable amd shaken.

While he'd been in there another man had walked in and, wait for it, brushed his fingertips up his forearm as he walked past him. He told me about it immediately because he was equally shaken up by it. I was also sympathetic but he then stopped and asked if that's what women feel like when men do something that similarly violates our personal space.

I would barely notice a man doing this because it's so far down on the list of sexualised micro aggressions that women just experience or accept yet he was visibly shaken by it because, at the age of 60, it was the first time he'd ever experienced anything like it.

And that's why it's not the same. Men can say they feel 'just as threatened' but they don't because they're not.

Not that women should have to put up with "a pinch on the bottom" but actually, the document I linked from the ABS includes the definition I've pasted below for clarity.

In the PSS, sexual assault is defined as an act of a sexual nature carried out against a person's will through the use of physical force, intimidation or coercion, including any attempts to do this. This includes rape, attempted rape, aggravated sexual assault (assault with a weapon), indecent assault, penetration by objects, forced sexual activity that did not end in penetration and attempts to force a person into sexual activity. Incidents so defined would be an offence under state and territory criminal law. Sexual assault excludes unwanted sexual touching, which for the purposes of the survey is defined as sexual harassment.

I note you haven't engaged with the point about women being held responsible for protecting themselves, either, which is a big part of WHY women are so concerned.

I’m not going to expand on that crime because I don’t want to put anything that might be identifying of the victim or area, but there’s a reason for that, revealed when they arrested one of the attackers. It’s not a safe area.

Choosing a different walk isn’t ’hiding away’. All I was saying is that my decisions about walks always have to factor in men/risk whereas it would be really nice if they didn’t. I have no problem working out the best walk considering parking, terrain, distance, etc, etc, but I’m pissed off at having the additional consideration of men and the potential risks from them.

Because they are being sensationalist. I'd pick the man every time. Because I don't believe every man is out to rape, pillage or murder me but I do believe that most bears would like to make me their dinner. (Depending on the bear species of course).

Stop living in fear, I was waking alone this morning up a large hill in my area at 7:30am when the moon was still fairly bright and took photos. I really enjoyed it.

I don’t have a dog. It’s just me walking,

I would still be going on that walk. Chances of it happening again are teeny tiny. It’s only been taken from you by fear.

I asked the OP is rape the only thing she thinks about in the context of a violent attack? Because when I read her references to “violent attack” I think of not only rape but also physical assault and even being murdered too.

The man that attacked me had made sexual advances so I knew if he succeeded he would be raping me while stabbing me, or raping me while I bled out.

I wasn’t at all implying that rape isn’t thought of as an attack or feared, I was asking OP is it true the only fear she has is of being raped?

Because most women have no idea how to assess risk accurately and have never seen a real bear in the woods.

I would choose the man instead of the bear.

@CircularMotionDementedThrustingGuy
Men cannot get raped.
Er, as a matter of fact and according to English law men CAN get raped.

But men are safer than women and there's no doubt in that.
Men are safer from rape, but not from street violence. This is fact.

Again, the police have said it’s currently not a good idea for reasons revealed when they arrested one of the perpetrators (and also again, not revealing details as I don’t want the victim to see here or her to be identified).

It’s not just that one walk. It’s lots of rural walks - all assessed for safety in a way that most men wouldn’t need to, and which I don’t need to when accompanied by my DBs.

A woman cannot rape a man, according to UK law.

Women are more often abused and victimised at home.
there is an epidemic of violence towards women and girls. There isn't for men.

not saying it doesn't happen, no one is saying that.

Because a social media trend is not reality.

If a man says his story to a woman and confides that he gets scared now and then too, then exactly what happened on this thread will happen to him. Most women will react with a how dare you, you have no idea what fear feels like to calling him a twat, or saying their FIL was almost lynched but he is fine, it hasn’t made him fearful because he never talks about it…

Men know not to tell most women these things because they get shut down

A man can rape a man under English law, so yes a man CAN get raped.

(there is no such thing as UK law because the countries within the UK don’t have one unified single set of laws.)

The OP wasn’t about domestic violence in the home, but being attacked outside the home.

Men being 3x more likely to be victims outside the home would indicate there may be a ‘pandemic’ of violence against them similar to the pandemic of violence against women inside the home.