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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To be so annoyed about the dangers of being a woman?

474 replies

Givemeanamethen · 10/08/2025 22:06

I like to run or go for long walks. I ususally listen to music or books or whatever.

There are some lovely long circular routes near me through woods and along streams. I do do them, but am always slightly on edge because it’s so big that you can go a while without seeing anyone, and if I pass a man I can’t help but think ‘if I was attacked here no one would hear’. I try and do these at busy times, be finished before it starts getting dark and I’d never do it in the rain because of how quiet it would be. It irritates me that men, of course, won’t have to consider any of this.

Tonight, I didn’t have time to go there so did a four mile route from my house. It’s pretty and got a ruralise atmosphere but the roads are relatively busy, for a Sunday night, and there are plenty of houses. I don’t ususally worry at all on this route.

But this evening, some fucking dickhead cycled up behind me, on the path instead of the road, and shouted right in my ear, clearly to try and frighten me and embarrass me, then he and his friend cycled away.

I’m so angry that I can’t even go on a walk without men getting a buzz out of harassing me.

Not even really sure what my AIBU is but I’m so angry that I could cry.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
9
tumblingdowntherabbithole · 11/08/2025 08:49

Women, in contrast, are constantly risk assessing, and constantly finding their lives limited compared to men.

Please don’t assume you speak for all women. Men certainly don’t limit my life or cause me to constantly risk assess. Men practically never factor into my decisions unless they have a dog with them and that’s only because my dog can be a reactive little bugger!

tumblingdowntherabbithole · 11/08/2025 08:53

I don't think advising anyone to walk down dark isolated places at night in the spirit of 'not letting them win' is good advice. Reality is that society has never been a safe place, the human race is inherently aggressive and that is not about to change any time soon. Putting yourself at risk is not going to further the cause.

But for me it’s not about letting anyone win or putting myself at risk. I just don’t feel unsafe or like it’s anything I need to worry about.

I feel sad that so many women feel differently but I’m not going to change my behaviour because they think I should feel a certain way.

Ruggerlass · 11/08/2025 08:53

LoremIpsumCici · 10/08/2025 22:47

Statistically men are more likely to be mugged, physically assaulted, stabbed or killed than women by a stranger they have never met.

Now just like women never ask for it by how they dress, the myth surrounding men asking for it is that they are criminal drug dealers or violent yobs. The data doesn’t support either myth.

Yes it is true a man isn’t vulnerable in the exact same way as a woman, but they are vulnerable in a similar enough way to “stranger danger” that I think some of the responses to yabberwock’s posts were unnecessarily shitty.

totally agree

SquishedMallow · 11/08/2025 09:02

tumblingdowntherabbithole · 11/08/2025 08:53

I don't think advising anyone to walk down dark isolated places at night in the spirit of 'not letting them win' is good advice. Reality is that society has never been a safe place, the human race is inherently aggressive and that is not about to change any time soon. Putting yourself at risk is not going to further the cause.

But for me it’s not about letting anyone win or putting myself at risk. I just don’t feel unsafe or like it’s anything I need to worry about.

I feel sad that so many women feel differently but I’m not going to change my behaviour because they think I should feel a certain way.

👍 great post

ToxicTeaching · 11/08/2025 09:03

I think some of the anger from the OP towards a male poster is based on this...

Women are allowed to talk about their own experiences without men talking about their own or without including men.

The second reply on the thread was from a man talking about his male experience when the thread title was about women. Not male violence in general but about her experience as a woman and she invited other women to share their experiences of being women in this respect.

He then went on to say that he felt 'just as threatened' on occasion when this simply isn't true because a) he is a male so doesn't share the female experience and b) he doesn't know the OP to know whether his perceived levels of threat are the same. And, rather than listen and understand, he persisted. As men so often do.

As a general rule, I'm not too scared to go out but, when I do feel wary or a moment of fear, I'm not scared of being stabbed or mugged. I'm scared of being raped and sexually tortured.

I'm aware that, if it did happen, my moral character would he called into judgement, what I was wearing, how much I'd been drinking, why I was walking where I was alone would be questioned.

As others have said, it's not just physical violence women are scared of, it's the threat of it from comments, leering, intimidation and laughing about it that women are fearful of because you don't know where that is going to go next. And, even if it goes nowhere, you have, once again, been reminded that you were 'lucky' that time.

Men behaving aggressively/threateningly would probably make men feel intimidated too, yes, but men generally aren't fearful if they are walking alone and encounter another man walking alone but women often don't have that luxury.

I've discussed this with men. Men I know, male friends and men in my family. And, yes, they've all said they've felt wary when a drunk man is behaving threateningly or unpredictably or when it's a group of men but never just at walking past a man in the street.

Some of them have initially thought they were 'just as threatened' until they realised they weren't. Because none of them have worried about being rounded on and cornered and sexually assaulted by a group of teenage boys at a bus stop (as I was); none of them has worried about having their hands full when walking through a crowded pub and being sexually assaulted (as I routinely was as a younger woman); none of them has ever worried that they would be sexually assaulted by a friend whose house they visited because they trusted them (as I was); none of them has ever worried about a man turning nasty and threatening to rape them on a train because they weren't being 'nice' enough (as I was); and all of them would leave their (ground floor) bedroom window open at night without fear of someone climbing through the window and raping them as they slept (as happened to me) and so on and so on...

I'm not scared of men. I don't isolate myself or stay at home. I still go to places on my own. I used to run in a secluded woods alone. But am I wary? Of course I am.

There's a music venue near me where the smoking area is up some stairs and out on a roof. If my partner goes up there and finds himself alone with another man, they nod, say hi and might chat about the band, say, "Catch you later, mate!" and go back inside.

He doesn't worry that the might get stabbed or mugged or beaten up in that moment. Why would he? I don't worry about that either. And I'll happily nod, say hi and chat about the band too. But then I might also be asked who I'm there with, if my husband is there, if they can have my number or can they buy me a drink or they'll 'come and find' me in the bar and that's the point at which the risk starts for me as a woman. In a way it never (or very, very rarely) does for men.

Bbq1 · 11/08/2025 09:04

Bbq1 · 11/08/2025 08:45

Tgabjd@Squished Mallow. I was actually expecting an attack from your post! I await.

I have also experienced being assaulted by a man as a child and adult but I still know for those 2, I pass hundreds daily who are perfectly decent men who wouldn't assault a woman or a another man. Men in my family have been attacked /verbally threatened in fact, probably far more than I have experienced

autienotnaughty · 11/08/2025 09:05

SquishedMallow · 11/08/2025 08:46

Oh but you're meant to vehemently agree that as women we're supposed to be truly terrified and outraged at this god awful world we live in, at the hands of all these men.

Not risk assess based on facts that won't change (females are vulnerable based on reduced strength ) and crack on with your life.

I'd hate to live in some of these posters heads.

I honestly think as white middle class women they enjoy the only victimhood that they can muster up (being female) so enjoy reaping the power of shouting down men when they dare to speak (in support) on here. I think they read blackmumsnetters or LGBTQ threads and think "I want a piece of that mentality".

The chimp paradox is a great book for their mentality. Really makes you live in peace. Accepting things you can't change (like inherit need to risk assess because of your vulnerability-that can apply to any group by the way ) and also teaching you to think logically and react logically instead of emotionally. You can tell by the amount of aggression and profanities and knee jerk insults being flung around by the same posters that there is most definitely an emotional reaction. Fine by me. But it won't get them anywhere.

Edited

It’s not about the fact that women are smaller than men. It’s about the fact that a large number of men murder, assault, rape, sexually assault and threaten/intimidate women. And an even larger number of men stand by and accept this societal norm and will even defend men.
You can choose how you respond to it but don’t deny it.

SquishedMallow · 11/08/2025 09:07

tumblingdowntherabbithole · 11/08/2025 08:49

Women, in contrast, are constantly risk assessing, and constantly finding their lives limited compared to men.

Please don’t assume you speak for all women. Men certainly don’t limit my life or cause me to constantly risk assess. Men practically never factor into my decisions unless they have a dog with them and that’s only because my dog can be a reactive little bugger!

It's nice to see you're not letting the knuckle dragging "angry at the world" and forcing all women to agree with their hostile view of men and the world influence you.

Everyday we get in our cars to go to work or take our kids to school. There's some utter maniacs on the road (drug/drunk drivers, speed freaks, elderly people that should have long given up their license , extremely tired HGV drivers, phone users ) but we still get in our cars and use the roads. Accidents, including fatalities happen every single day , and no matter what measures we put in place, they always will do. You can cower in your bedroom with the curtains closed being terrified of the road and thinking all drivers are a risk to you (which potentially they are ) or you can accept the risk. Do your best to insure your own and children's safety, and crack on with your life.

ItsBouqeeeet · 11/08/2025 09:09

ToxicTeaching · 11/08/2025 09:03

I think some of the anger from the OP towards a male poster is based on this...

Women are allowed to talk about their own experiences without men talking about their own or without including men.

The second reply on the thread was from a man talking about his male experience when the thread title was about women. Not male violence in general but about her experience as a woman and she invited other women to share their experiences of being women in this respect.

He then went on to say that he felt 'just as threatened' on occasion when this simply isn't true because a) he is a male so doesn't share the female experience and b) he doesn't know the OP to know whether his perceived levels of threat are the same. And, rather than listen and understand, he persisted. As men so often do.

As a general rule, I'm not too scared to go out but, when I do feel wary or a moment of fear, I'm not scared of being stabbed or mugged. I'm scared of being raped and sexually tortured.

I'm aware that, if it did happen, my moral character would he called into judgement, what I was wearing, how much I'd been drinking, why I was walking where I was alone would be questioned.

As others have said, it's not just physical violence women are scared of, it's the threat of it from comments, leering, intimidation and laughing about it that women are fearful of because you don't know where that is going to go next. And, even if it goes nowhere, you have, once again, been reminded that you were 'lucky' that time.

Men behaving aggressively/threateningly would probably make men feel intimidated too, yes, but men generally aren't fearful if they are walking alone and encounter another man walking alone but women often don't have that luxury.

I've discussed this with men. Men I know, male friends and men in my family. And, yes, they've all said they've felt wary when a drunk man is behaving threateningly or unpredictably or when it's a group of men but never just at walking past a man in the street.

Some of them have initially thought they were 'just as threatened' until they realised they weren't. Because none of them have worried about being rounded on and cornered and sexually assaulted by a group of teenage boys at a bus stop (as I was); none of them has worried about having their hands full when walking through a crowded pub and being sexually assaulted (as I routinely was as a younger woman); none of them has ever worried that they would be sexually assaulted by a friend whose house they visited because they trusted them (as I was); none of them has ever worried about a man turning nasty and threatening to rape them on a train because they weren't being 'nice' enough (as I was); and all of them would leave their (ground floor) bedroom window open at night without fear of someone climbing through the window and raping them as they slept (as happened to me) and so on and so on...

I'm not scared of men. I don't isolate myself or stay at home. I still go to places on my own. I used to run in a secluded woods alone. But am I wary? Of course I am.

There's a music venue near me where the smoking area is up some stairs and out on a roof. If my partner goes up there and finds himself alone with another man, they nod, say hi and might chat about the band, say, "Catch you later, mate!" and go back inside.

He doesn't worry that the might get stabbed or mugged or beaten up in that moment. Why would he? I don't worry about that either. And I'll happily nod, say hi and chat about the band too. But then I might also be asked who I'm there with, if my husband is there, if they can have my number or can they buy me a drink or they'll 'come and find' me in the bar and that's the point at which the risk starts for me as a woman. In a way it never (or very, very rarely) does for men.

So you're downplaying how the male posted lived his experience? The hypocrisy on Mumsnet is astounding!

SquishedMallow · 11/08/2025 09:11

ItsBouqeeeet · 11/08/2025 09:09

So you're downplaying how the male posted lived his experience? The hypocrisy on Mumsnet is astounding!

To be honest their post looks like a "copy and paste" from blackmumsnetters. Just swap 'men' for 'white women'. It's weaponising.

OneBadKitty · 11/08/2025 09:12

tumblingdowntherabbithole · 11/08/2025 08:53

I don't think advising anyone to walk down dark isolated places at night in the spirit of 'not letting them win' is good advice. Reality is that society has never been a safe place, the human race is inherently aggressive and that is not about to change any time soon. Putting yourself at risk is not going to further the cause.

But for me it’s not about letting anyone win or putting myself at risk. I just don’t feel unsafe or like it’s anything I need to worry about.

I feel sad that so many women feel differently but I’m not going to change my behaviour because they think I should feel a certain way.

Well that's fine @tumblingdowntherabbithole , we all risk assess and some people are more risk averse than others and read situations individually.

Personally, I'm not a person who feels threatened generally and am confident to go out in the evening alone in a city or walk to my local shops after dark and take a stroll through my local woods or canal towpath alone during the day. I have never experienced violent behaviour towards me from a man or felt frightened when out and about. However, I do take precautions like avoiding isolated unlit back alleys, I wouldn't walk the canal tow path at night alone, I wouldn't want to park my car in a multi-storey at night knowing I'd be returning to it alone when it was possibly empty, I keep all my doors locked when home alone, etc. These may not be the riskiest things but they're things I feel safer not doing.

Bbq1 · 11/08/2025 09:12

ToxicTeaching · 11/08/2025 09:03

I think some of the anger from the OP towards a male poster is based on this...

Women are allowed to talk about their own experiences without men talking about their own or without including men.

The second reply on the thread was from a man talking about his male experience when the thread title was about women. Not male violence in general but about her experience as a woman and she invited other women to share their experiences of being women in this respect.

He then went on to say that he felt 'just as threatened' on occasion when this simply isn't true because a) he is a male so doesn't share the female experience and b) he doesn't know the OP to know whether his perceived levels of threat are the same. And, rather than listen and understand, he persisted. As men so often do.

As a general rule, I'm not too scared to go out but, when I do feel wary or a moment of fear, I'm not scared of being stabbed or mugged. I'm scared of being raped and sexually tortured.

I'm aware that, if it did happen, my moral character would he called into judgement, what I was wearing, how much I'd been drinking, why I was walking where I was alone would be questioned.

As others have said, it's not just physical violence women are scared of, it's the threat of it from comments, leering, intimidation and laughing about it that women are fearful of because you don't know where that is going to go next. And, even if it goes nowhere, you have, once again, been reminded that you were 'lucky' that time.

Men behaving aggressively/threateningly would probably make men feel intimidated too, yes, but men generally aren't fearful if they are walking alone and encounter another man walking alone but women often don't have that luxury.

I've discussed this with men. Men I know, male friends and men in my family. And, yes, they've all said they've felt wary when a drunk man is behaving threateningly or unpredictably or when it's a group of men but never just at walking past a man in the street.

Some of them have initially thought they were 'just as threatened' until they realised they weren't. Because none of them have worried about being rounded on and cornered and sexually assaulted by a group of teenage boys at a bus stop (as I was); none of them has worried about having their hands full when walking through a crowded pub and being sexually assaulted (as I routinely was as a younger woman); none of them has ever worried that they would be sexually assaulted by a friend whose house they visited because they trusted them (as I was); none of them has ever worried about a man turning nasty and threatening to rape them on a train because they weren't being 'nice' enough (as I was); and all of them would leave their (ground floor) bedroom window open at night without fear of someone climbing through the window and raping them as they slept (as happened to me) and so on and so on...

I'm not scared of men. I don't isolate myself or stay at home. I still go to places on my own. I used to run in a secluded woods alone. But am I wary? Of course I am.

There's a music venue near me where the smoking area is up some stairs and out on a roof. If my partner goes up there and finds himself alone with another man, they nod, say hi and might chat about the band, say, "Catch you later, mate!" and go back inside.

He doesn't worry that the might get stabbed or mugged or beaten up in that moment. Why would he? I don't worry about that either. And I'll happily nod, say hi and chat about the band too. But then I might also be asked who I'm there with, if my husband is there, if they can have my number or can they buy me a drink or they'll 'come and find' me in the bar and that's the point at which the risk starts for me as a woman. In a way it never (or very, very rarely) does for men.

No but a teenage boy (18) was abducted, raped and then abandoned in my area.

ItsBouqeeeet · 11/08/2025 09:13

SquishedMallow · 11/08/2025 09:11

To be honest their post looks like a "copy and paste" from blackmumsnetters. Just swap 'men' for 'white women'. It's weaponising.

Edited

Honestly, responses like the above (not yours) leave me speechless.

Because SOME men behave like they do, all men are apparently the same. The fact the male poster is apparently not allowed to talk about his experience is downright disgusting.

Grammarnut · 11/08/2025 09:14

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

This is a tone deaf response. You are a man and can have no understanding of the fear most women have at the back of their mind all the time. Not just in lonely places, but if we live alone or are unexpectedly alone in our own homes, which are no safe sanctuary. Always The Fear - will someone break in? What will I do? What will happen to me? Constant. Always.
Rape is an invasion of our body and it is a crime for the most part perpetrated against women. It is a weapon of war, a weapon of control and it leaves women devastated and (sometimes) pregnant. You do not understand.
Being able to punch and scratch is no protection. We learn from childhood: run. Don't wear shoes you can't run in if you are likely to be on your own. Don't wear clothes you can't run in if you are likely to be on your own. Carry things that could be a weapon e.g. keys in your hand and learn to run.
Don't get in random taxis, don't take lifts even with friends, don't go anywhere where you will be on your own.
Multi-storey carparks, quiet roads, dark carparks all are dangerous for women, but so are shopping centres, theatres... Our lives are trammelled by this constant fear, we are cribbed and confined by it and men a) don't understand (like you they trot out the figures that show those most likely to be attacked are young men) and b) don't actually care for the most part.
Men are not twats who do the things women fear - they are vicious misogynists.

dottiedodah · 11/08/2025 09:14

I feel the same OP .I avoid walking the dog around anywhere too lonely.It stinks but a while ago a lone jogger was murdered in a beauty spot.Also a dog walker out early.Men dont seem to get the risk (judging by above PP!)

Slightyamusedandsilly · 11/08/2025 09:17

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

But you really have no idea how much fear of men women exist in. And how all of us have experiences, multiple, of men's violence and sexual assault. ALL of us. It's what the Me Too movement was about.

It might not be all men, but it's DEFINITELY all women. We all live smaller lives than we want because of men.

As men you should be shouting the message to OTHER MEN to leave women the fuck alone. The abusers might listen to men, because they don't think anything women have to say is worth listening to or altering their behaviour for. Anything less is complicit in the abuse of women.

Givemeanamethen · 11/08/2025 09:19

FluffyWabbit · 11/08/2025 04:53

Really sorry this happened to you.

I am part of Krav Maga, which is a self defense/Isreali combat thing, and our instructor would never approve of us wearing any type of headphones, for any reason, when we're on our own in public. This would include walking, jogging, public transport etc

Not only do headphones mute awareness of regular environmental cues like sirens, barking dogs which might alert us to things, approaching cars etc, you also leave yourself open as a target to predators who see your inability to hear as a vulnerability to exploit.

The advice against headphones isn't just for women, btw.

Not saying this is your fault or should have happened.

Hope you're okay.

A man would never think twice about running with headphones in. I’m not going to stop using them, it is a pleasure I refuse to give up due to men.

OP posts:
CircularMotionDementedThrustingGuy · 11/08/2025 09:20

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

tumblingdowntherabbithole · 11/08/2025 09:20

Our lives are trammelled by this constant fear, we are cribbed and confined by it

This is genuinely so far from my own reality as to be almost alien. I’ve honestly never felt unsafe in my day to day life and I certainly don’t live in fear in my own home because I’m worried about a break in.

I’m not saying that to be dismissive - I just feel so sad that so many women genuinely seem to live their lives in a near-constant state of worry.

ToxicTeaching · 11/08/2025 09:21

ItsBouqeeeet · 11/08/2025 09:09

So you're downplaying how the male posted lived his experience? The hypocrisy on Mumsnet is astounding!

Not downplaying it, no. But men are rarely concerned with these matters and how they impact men until women want to talk about how it impacts them.

And rather than listen to and understand women, they talk about themselves.

And I am more than happy for men to talk about their experiences of male violence but they rarely want to until and unless women talk about their experiences of it.

They rarely want to know what they, as individual men or as part of men in general, can do to make women in general feel safer.

I have no problem with women who don't feel wary or scared. That is their experience. But many of those women are quick to deny the experience of women who do feel wary or scared. Why is that?

GlassTube · 11/08/2025 09:22

I'm a 45 year old woman who has lived a life full of travels and adventures and I have NEVER felt scared in the way people are describing on this thread. I don't worry about rape or murder, I don't feel nervous around men when I'm alone, I am happy walking most places. I haven't had problems in my life with this.

When travelling I got catcalled a fair bit but never in a threatening way, they just wanted my attention.

When I hear women say they text each other to say they're home safe, walk with keys in fingers etc. it doesn't resonate at all, it's just not part of my experience to do this.

It annoys me when women say, 'Every woman has had X experience' - I always think, well, not me - but I don't comment as it seems anti-sisterhood. And so their statement stands, because I suppose others do the same.

Please don't tell me I don't exist! And I am sure I am not the only one.

CircularMotionDementedThrustingGuy · 11/08/2025 09:23

@GivemeanamethenOP YANBU at all. Some of the responses on this thread make me so sad.

CircularMotionDementedThrustingGuy · 11/08/2025 09:23

ToxicTeaching · 11/08/2025 09:21

Not downplaying it, no. But men are rarely concerned with these matters and how they impact men until women want to talk about how it impacts them.

And rather than listen to and understand women, they talk about themselves.

And I am more than happy for men to talk about their experiences of male violence but they rarely want to until and unless women talk about their experiences of it.

They rarely want to know what they, as individual men or as part of men in general, can do to make women in general feel safer.

I have no problem with women who don't feel wary or scared. That is their experience. But many of those women are quick to deny the experience of women who do feel wary or scared. Why is that?

Completely agree with all of this!

CallItLoneliness · 11/08/2025 09:24

LoremIpsumCici · 10/08/2025 22:57

I see it as relevant because it was while camping alone in a rural area that I was attacked by a man with a knife who intended to kill me.

I am sorry if this makes you more afraid, but seriously when out alone running/walking you have never once thought of the potential for being murdered? It’s only been rape?

You must not be aware of all the murder victims they find in the countryside every year who were killed there and not killed in an urban area and dumped there.

Not around to be blamed for it if someone murders us, are we? We won't get asked if we wanted to be murdered, really, either. If a woman is raped while running in a rural area, or even a busy area that was quiet at the time, she will be asked why she was there, and possibly also whether her attire meant she was asking for it. The legal presumption of innocence is often translated to 'she has to prove she didn't want it, even though he jumped out of the bushes', rather than having any rational thought around it. The chance of a conviction if she reports is about 1%. And 1/4 women are raped in their lifetime. Murder is clearly awful and none of us want it, but if we are raped, it damages us very badly, and we are unlikely to be believed, or even seen as real victims. We have been taught all our lived that rape is our responsibility to prevent. So yes, rape is what we think about.

Givemeanamethen · 11/08/2025 09:25

Kurkara · 11/08/2025 06:30

Plenty of men become anxious after an attack like this. Some even develop full blown PTSD.
Categorising forgetting about it as the manly response, and ruminating on it as the womanly response is really unhelpful, IMO.

Don’t be utterly ridiculous. I said nothing of the sort. Read.

OP posts:
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