To think of they want to bath together then it’s not a problem?

[LondonLady1980]

I have two boys; the eldest is 11.5 years old and the youngest has just turned 8.

They adore each other and are pretty much inseparable which also includes bath time.

I have never had a problem with them bathing together as that’s what they choose to do, but some of my friends who have children of a similar age have started making comments that it isn’t appropriate.

They have expressed concern for my eldest son and say that at “his age” (puberty implications I imagine) he shouldn’t have to share a bath.

But I’m not making them share….they want to share. I give them to option to bathe alone if that’s what they’d prefer, but they don’t want to.

When I explain this to my friends I just get eye rolls in my direction.

What do other parents do in this situation?

Should I be enforcing separate baths?

People are implying this 11.5 year old could be abusing his 8 year old brother.

So yeah, whether OP or the hippy Toni Colette mothers like it or not, it is of course weird. Weird meaning unusual, out of the ordinary. And they will certainly be mocked for this.

So again, tell them to keep it to themselves at minimum.

I understand that, but it also doesn't mean it's happening in 99% of households. Obviously as with domestic abuse or any other form of abuse there will be experiences people have they decide never to report or never feel able to report for a wide range of reasons. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, I'm just saying it's unreasonable to say that rates are high, without any tangible context to that. High in comparison to what? Any incident of incest or any other form of abuse is one too many and is therefore higher than it should be.

I think there's a very careful line we need to tread between providing our children with the tools they need to be safe and protect themselves, without accidentally projecting our own fears for them onto them and over-sexualising them or making them feel uncomfortable with their bodies or sexuality in the process.

As I said, there's nothing in what op has written here to suggest that there's something insidious going on. It sounds like these two boys are quite sheltered and are maybe a bit immature for their age. To suggest that one is deliberately exploiting the other with absolutely no other context is not fair with the information provided here which is all we have to go off. It does read as if you are attaching your own traumatic experience to this which is very, very understandable but it's not fair to op or to her sons.

One of two posters have been triggered by personal events and they’re catastrophising the situation for OP. I’m sorry for what happened to them but perhaps they can use this to seek therapy to try and assist their thoughts and feelings (not minimising as it must have been awful for them). But to then look at every family where there is more than one child in the household and assume one of them is being abused - that must make their life very tricky for them,

I think they’ve missed that OP said she plods about as they’re in the bath - so she can hear what they’re doing and chatting about. So no risk there. And the eldest will likely want some boundaries soon.

I’ve DS and DSD not too dissimilar in age. They’ve shared a room on holidays. Even as mid teens and older teens. They were comfortable with it (we always checked with them both separately) and they’ve always gotten on well and been loving and caring towards each other and they’re now grown adults and they haven’t changed. They always gave each other space when they were using the bathroom or getting changed.

It’s sad that some people can only see incest everywhere they look,

Their is a thread i dont know how to link but if someone else can its about an article saying the most common type of incest is sibling

"...and that's that"

What a load of silly-billy bollocks. 😆

Yes, there are abnormal households where older siblings sexually abuse younger ones. And there are stalag-like schools where the most brutal kids rule the roost, and will punish boys for any show of affection.

But there are also plenty of normal families where kids happily share a bath until they grow out of it, and at least some decent schools that try to encourage sensitivity and discourage bullying.

You insist we should all bow to the former examples, which is not at all helpful.

"You are responding to someone who has been sexually abused and who has expressed concern about sexual abuse. It's time for you to reign yourself in and be silent rather than trying to nitpick"

Cool beans. You clearly missed the bit where I said I was ALSO talking from personal experience. Maybe you weren't aware that people who have experience of sexual abuse are not a monolith and can see things differently and can also get things right or wrong, particularly when at different stages of healing. I know I certainly used to see it everywhere at times unfairly.

"And it is DISGUSTING that you focused on "see their experiences as positive" aspect. Either you are in favour of child sexual abuse or you are utterly and completely clueless at this point. Many abused children focus on the positives because they are so badly traumatised, it is a coping method."

To clarify - as you've missed my point ENTIRELY - we don't know what the participant pool in this study were asked about. We don't know what the questions were. We don't know how they were worded. We therefore DO NOT KNOW if the questions are specific ONLY to child abuse or are also inclusive of circumstances that are not abusive but may arise in a normal, healthy family. Which MAY be why participants marked those as positive. For example two brothers comparing penis size or shape to determine what is normal could be seen as 'positive' and non abusive. Or it could be seen as unwanted exposure depending on the situation. Obviously trauma may also inform the responses given and people may have reframed awful things in order to protect themselves emotionally. My point was simply what there is just not enough information in the abstract that's available to know what the study details to say whether it's a fair representation or not, because we can't read it. And I'm saying that with my academic hat on having done this type of research myself.

"Either you are in favour of child sexual abuse or you are utterly and completely clueless at this point"

Imagine telling someone who's experienced abuse they're in favour of child sexual abuse. I hope you feel embarrassed. I'm certainly embarrassed for you.

HNRTFT but my children showered after the age of about 7 so not an issue about their age .

I didn't bother to read this. There is something wrong with you.

Nah, we should bow to reality. And that's that :)

Nah, we shouldn't let the worst behaviour dictate our idea of "desirable norms".

I don’t understand why OP has even posted when she has decided, ages ago, what she thinks and she has never come back ! Again, these are real women. living real lives, suffering real opinions, we stand with you.

@LondonLady1980 definitely time for separate baths. if they still want to have fun together then swim shorts for them both .

You must have a very big bath or a very small 11yo, OP.

This for gods sake.

Why are people so very weird. It’s fine OP. People need to stop projecting and sexualising kids. They are having fun and nothing weird at all that they are comfortable bathing together.

No there really isn’t.

If your children are happy and comfortable then carry on. We are pretty relaxed in our house, we all understand boundaries and if a door is closed we knock. We are all very aware of private parts are not to be touched by others, and the importance of consent and being able to say no if something makes you feel weird.

My kids bathed together when older. They get changed in front of eachother at times. We have conversations when I'm in the bath and the teen wants to tell me some gossip.

Families have their own comfort levels based on their own experiences and values bit that doesnt make this family wrong.

Male fetuses get erections in the womb. They don't have to be anywhere near puberty.

They are not visible in the womb though to others.

Should be separate

I do find it funny how precious most the people on this thread are. As others have said, in many countries families or even strangers will sauna together naked all their lives across the genders so kids bathing together is not a big deal and it’s lovely they enjoy their time together. Also, (a) i went to a boarding school where we were sharing bedrooms till 16 and (b) I would sometimes see my dad in his underwear even as a young adult (rarely) if he’d just had his bath and I’d popped down to knock on his door, (c) whilst breastfeeding I’ve definitely popped my boob out infront of strangers and (d) I would still get changed in a female changing room in the open - and I’m relatively conservative about how I dress / my level of nakedness how on earth is it a problem for two brothers at this age.

It sounds fine to me OP I don't see what the big deal is. They sound like lovely happy kids, and there's nothing wrong with being a little young for their age, so many kids are forced to grow up too quickly. The people throwing around wild accusations really should pull themselves together. Like others have said people have communal showers and saunas and so on in all types of situations, there's nothing inappropriate about it. I would say just leave them to it, they'll grow out of it in their own time and for the time being its lovely that they get on so well.

This happens in my workplace as we have a massive sauna in the building. For our Christmas party we hired a sauna cottage and the whole evening everyone was in and out of the sauna. Almost entirely male workplace though. When I go in, I insist everyone wears towels though

OP, I'm just amazed they both still fit in the bath! We don't really have baths in my country but of course brothers go to sauna together, even as teenagers, and carry on as adults.

There are lots of cultures where communal naked bathing is normal, and it has been normal throughout history in this country also. I went to a public bath in Japan only a couple of years ago.

If all are happy with it crack on.

11.5 yo , presumably at secondary school wearing dinosaur pants?

Is he very young for his age?