Enough is enough: DP needs to get a job now

[lucyellensmum]

Everymorning i wake up and i have a knot in the pit of my stomach and i feel sick. I'm not pregnant, its stress!! Ive posted so much about this its like a broken record. DP is "trying" to run his own building business, well its just him. He has no time management skills and is underestimating jobs left right and centre. For the past two years our income has been 7K and the only way we have managed is to borrow from my mother and get into horrendous credit card debt (vicious circle).

All i hear from him is, "i just need to get this job (nightmare job) out of the way, then im going to change it around and make some money" great, but i hear it every single fucking job. The job he is working on this week, was supposed to bring some money in, but guess what, it is taking significantly longer than he thought . So i imagine he will be trotting the same old line out over again.

People have suggested i help out, more than i do, which is typing invoices and sorting the accounts. But its not possible for me to say how long a job will take, all i know is that it will take longer than he estimates and subsequently prices for.

Its coming up to time to pay the mortgage and he promised me faithfully there would be money - well, we have had no money for over two months now and he is borrowing from the mortgage overdraft and hadn't told me til he let it slip.

I've made hints that i want him to get a job, the frustrating thing that he could easily earn 30K, be home by 5-6 every night and not work weekends.

People have also suggested that I should get a job. Well maybe, BUT when i had DD we discussed this and both agreed that it would be better if i were a SAHM, DD starts school next year and i will definately be going back to work then. I would get a job in an instant if DP was earning his limit and we were still struggling, but he choses to do this. I suggested to him that I get a job now and he takes a year out to look after DD. He said that he really wants the business to work and that, you've guessed it, The next job................

Am i being selfish here?? I really can't stand much more - i would be financially more secure if i left and went on benefit. But how can i do that, DD adores her daddy and he adores her. I love him deeply too and i think he loves me (we have had a bad patch - is there any wonder). Im just sick of waking up everymorning withthe feeling that i need to rush to the medicine cabinet to take my ADs.

LEM-I do not think that you are being selfish.
It sounds like his business should be a hobby as he is not providing for his family.
The issue is not you going to work- you know what mn is like, people who reply with unhelpful suggestions usually have an agenda.
I think you need to tell him how serious you are and that you need him to provide for you and your daughter.

Sorry to read this LEM, i haven't read any of your other threads

It is hard work making your own business work and it does take a couple of years i guess to build it up, but that doesn't help you in the meantime wondering where the payments for bills are going to come from

I don't think you are being unreasonable at all with this, but you have to sit down with your dp and really decide whether or not its worth it, if things haven't moved on and he's disorganised timewise then that isn't going to bring in any thing as is reputation may be tainted by this

I have friends who have started there own businesses in this field and i know that their DW's do most of the paperwork/quotes/ordering parts etc so maybe you could do a little to help out in that respect if you both decide its worth carrying on

One of my friends also used a free consultant that came to her house and advised her on what pc software to buy to make the paperwork easier, what stores give the best trade discount, any loads of other bits and pieces - could you find anyone like that in your area? if not i could find out a bit more for you if you like

I have been through this.

He needs to get a job, pay off some debts, do a bit of work for clients at weekends till he gets a good reputation and learns to mange his accounts.

In a few years, when the children are in secondary school, he can look again at going it alone.

It is irresponsible and unfair for him to be causing all this stress and jeopardising your security while his children are so small.

We will all be working until we are 70, so there is plenty of time.

Manage (not mange)

We have spoken on this before. The general consensus then I believe was to sit down, cards on table, honest open discussion and for you to help where you can but on the basis that he is honest with you ref: timescales/costs. I was with you and DP to get this business working. BUT now I think you're right enough is enough. He doesn't seem to be learning from previous mistakes. I think taking on employment doing what he does so well is the way forward. Maybe he could use it as a template to set up business again in the future? If he sees first hand how a successful business is supposed to run . . . he could maybe do freelance at weekends to build up reputation/customer base.
You're not being unreasonable. I don't think your DP is being unreasonable as such but he is unrealistic and seems to have his head halfway between being stuck firmly in the sand and up in the clouds.

I'm going to talk to him tonight - i just can't do this anymore. I feel terrible for crushing his dream, but we are going to lose everything if we carry on like this. My mother is running out of patience (and money!) and its quite frankly, humiliating to be accepting handouts at 37 years of age.
The problem is, i really do think it is now or never with the business, if he stops now, he wont go back to it. But how long can you flog a dead horse for?

LEM - Yes I can understand you feel bad for crushing his dream. But at the moment he is crushing you!!
I really hope you can work this out. You don't deserve this stress.

I agree he should get a job. Why don't you do an online jobcentre search today for jobs that wouls suit him and show him when he comes home tonight?
I do hope things work out for you.

Maybe you should say to him that you are going to start job hunting and you think he should too. You say that whoever gets a job first goes out to work whilst the other stays at home.

You cannot keep on flogging this business thing. Not while you have a mortgage to pay.

yes misty you are right. I have been really stressed about money this week, i spoke to him yesterday on the phone (we dont get chance in the evening as he puts dd to bed and stays up there and goes to bed ) and he said "you getting stressed out is stressing me out" so basically, don't be talking to me about this. I tried to say to him that he is supposed to be my partner (we have been together 16 years next week!) and who the hell else am i supposed to talk to. (apart from MN of course). I have a sinking feeling that this conversation will end with a horrible confrontation, resentment and possibly a split

LEM - I agree. You cannot carry on like this, at some point your mum or the bank, or probably both, will pull the plug on your borrowing, and then you're screwed. Not to mention the humiliation, as you say, of two grown adults who are living off handouts.
Spell it out to him. Tell him you are in danger of losing everything. Tell him that you have offered positive solutions: ie you getting a job and him having some time at home with your child, but that he won't listen. Write a list of points so that you dont forget anything. This is a soul destroying way to live. It seems like he doesnt realise that a family needs to have a proper source of income to cover their outgoings. If he still won't listen, you may be best off finding a job as of now. Sounds like your dd is nearly in school anyway. At least you would feel less vulnerable then. You say you agreed that you would stay home until she was at school - well, that needs to be renegotiated maybe; after all, it's hardly as if your dh is listening to you and sticking to any sort of reasonable agreement.

if you got a job would you have to pay for childcare or would would your mum or someone look after your DD?

i do tend to agree river, but i feel quite strongly that i dont want DD in fulltime childcare (its a personal choice - i know it works for other people), so if i do have to do this (as DP keeps hinting)I am going to resent him for forcing me into it. I am probably being niave and unrealistic, but why the hell couldnt he wait til DD at school. But then again, WTF is he doing working at a business that is not making any money - it wouldnt matter if i were bringing home a six figure salary, it still doesn't make any sense. Its not like he loves it so much that he would work if he didnt have to

sparkles, i would have to pay for childcare, my mum can help out on the odd afternoon but she is 73 and not able to do full time as her health is not that great. Its not hte paying for childcare that i have the issue with, as i could technically earn enough to cover this, but its the fact that it is important to me that i am at home with DD.

No I think you're right - he needs to make a decision to enable you to get back on an even keel. It is a good ambition to work for yourself but he obviously can't cope on his own well enough for it to be viable. You could, when he gives estimates buffer in the extra time you know it will take(look at past jobs), but maybe that would make him uncompetitive and lose work. I think ideals of being a sahm for the first few years are great (did it myself) but if reality is you cannot afford to do so something has to give. You can't afford to wait another year by the sounds of it. He sounds pretty immature and irresponsible to be avoiding the issue and placing the blame elsewhere.

I think when a new business is the sole source of income, things can get a bit hairy. Sorry to hear about it. Could he put the business on hold, get a job and start up again when you are working? That way you know there is one guaranteed income.

It sounds as if he can do the basic work but not manage the business side of it. A course maybe or teaming up with someone who can get the costings and timing right.

Good luck.

But presumably if she starts school next year, your dd is already at nursery school/playgroup some of the week? Could you not consider getting a P/T job so that it's not a case of 'all or nothing'??
If a split is possibly on the cards anyway (as you mention) it's even more essential that look at your own earning situation. Don't mean that in a harsh way, it's just that things are not good are they? And ensuring that you have some income that isnt dependent on you dh would be good. It also gives you something to build on once your dd is in school.

My brothers started a property maintenance business and have lurched from financial crisis to financial crisis ever since. But I honestly think they are 'addicted' to it now and will never give it up. Their rose-tinted glasses blind them to the fact that they are living lives most people would consider totally unacceptable. I recognise lots in your opening post.

I am not honestly sure you will be able to convince him, mostly because he will see you coming at this from a position of bias (ie wanting regular money etc etc and not seeing what he considers to be the big picture of how much it means to him and how he will eventually make shedloads and so on). I think you arguing with him (however logically) might not be good for your relationship (as you are aware, given your comment on crushing him).

I would suggest that if you have any business-minded friends (or, failing that, a local acocuntant) you ask them to go over all his accounts/records and then that they tell you both if his business could be a flier or not. If he hears it from an unbiased source he may be more inclined to give up the dream.

FWIW I did this with my brothers and identified loads of stuff they always forgot to price in: Their pricing structure now follows the following:- basic cost of job (based on past experience of hours it will take, X daily cost - 120 or whatever - plus 20% flexibility in case of unknowns) PLUS materials PLUS a daily 'overheads' rate (which equates to things like advertising and car running costs + telephone bills and so on, caluclated on an annual basis and then divided by 200 to represent appx number of workign days). The total of this is the ballpark figure which should then by adjusted to reflect complexity of job in question (and I would recommend he adds 15% to this total to provide another cushion). This then is the amount you qoute. Most people just look at how much they can hire a labourer themselves and then add a tiny bit on top, forgetting that hiring a casual labourer who lives at his parents with no overheads is totally different in cost terms and is NOT the basis for pricing a job. Your DH should also be told clearly that he should be aiming to win maybe 25% of the jobs he bids for, not 75% of them. If he is winning everything he asks for then he has got his pricing completely wrong.

Yes i know what your saying about being at home, and i think your right in that if you and DP both decided that you would stay at home to look after DD while he works then he should realise that what he's doing is crushing your family and probably to some extent your faith in him, and he should pack it in and get a job that pays the bills or as you say he should stay at home while you work

do you think that his bullish reaction to you when you try to talk to him is because he realises that its not working and he wants to do this for you as a family and is maybe finding it hard to accept that he's failed and can't provide for you like this? or is it just bloody-mindedness!

Make him put a contingency to cover time overruns on all the jobs he prices for.
Actually I think you should act like you are a single parent. Sort out childcare, get a job, pay the bills. Tell dh that since he has greater flexibility he can cover days when your dd is ill, holidays etc. but start thinking about what you would do if he weren't around. If he feels sidelined as a consequence - tough, he brought it on himself. It also prepares you for splitting. Once you're up and running also put together an escape fund, sort out important documents etc so you're ready to go. That way you hold the cards and some feeling of control might help you change the way you're feeling at the moment. Who knows it might cause your dh to buck his ideas up and get his act together. Personally I'm not sure you can get your dh to change tbh. Never had much luck with mine!

I think he's given his dream a go, you've done everything in your power to help him along, but at some point he just has to accept that it's not going to happen.

FWIW, I think he will feel so much better when he's got a job. Yes, disappointing not to have made a go of his business, but the sheer blissful relief of knowing the mortgage payment is in the account waiting. Not to mention the joy of letting someone else worry about the accounts and the clients and the phone calls.

I know you think it's make-or-break time but it's really not. Two, five or even seven years working for someone else will be training for him on the bits of the business he's not getting right at the moment. Perhaps it would help him to think of it like an apprenticeship for the business side of things.

I hope he sees that no business is worth breaking up a family over.

squiffy that's a really helpful post. I also think your use of the word 'addicted' is spot on. It sounds like LEM's DH is doing the same thing.... the concept of doing a job to pay the bills seems to have passed him by; he's become obsessed with his enterprise and is blinkered to the fact that real life means earning to pay the bills. Maybe his business is something he could try again later on, when LEM is working, or maybe it needs to be a sideline to a regular source of income. But for the moment they need one steady reliable income and it isnt providing that.

LEM: it sounds tough. One of the hardest things about being self-employed is knowing when to walk away. All the hard work of setting the business up, getting clients and getting work takes (as you know) a massive emotional investment as well as a monetary investment which is very hard to walk away from. Plus, of course, when you give up, you're saying to the world "I've failed" which can be a very difficult thing to do. So even where the entirely rational thing to do is pack it in, many people stay in far longer than they should - some get lucky as a result, others don't.

Is there some sort of middle ground which you could steer which addresses both your needs? Would it be possible, for example, for him to take on a normal job (paying 30K a year) and leave the current company ticking over, which is something I know other people have done. You leave your name in the market, take on small assignments which may require you working evenings and/ or weekends, stay in touch with your clients and build your business more gradually (or not, as the case may be!) In your DP's case, it gives him the chance to still keep his options open and not admit to having failed, whilst bringing in the money you need?

ninedragons, when he was working for someone a while back, we were really happy as a couple. Why can't he see this??? He isnt bloody minded or selfish, he is anything but that, but i just dont think the stress is worth it. He tends to always say that things have been stressful since we have had DD - funny coincidence then that was the time he started working for himself.

He cannot learn anymore from going back to work, the industry doesnt work like that, and if he was going to learn then he should by now. I have no question of his talents, he is amazing, but to make money from it? he just cant

So what prompted the move to set up on his own? You say you were both really happy when he is was employed, but maybe there were underlying issues that he didnt feel he could talk about. Just seems odd for someone to give up a job where they are genuinely happy and secure, to live this rollercoaster existence. I think your discussion needs to go right back to how he felt about becoming a father, whether there were issues about his previous job that he wasnt happy with etc. Be prepared for things you may now want to hear, as it sounds like there's a lot to unearth, but it's the only way forward.