Enough is enough: DP needs to get a job now

[lucyellensmum]

Everymorning i wake up and i have a knot in the pit of my stomach and i feel sick. I'm not pregnant, its stress!! Ive posted so much about this its like a broken record. DP is "trying" to run his own building business, well its just him. He has no time management skills and is underestimating jobs left right and centre. For the past two years our income has been 7K and the only way we have managed is to borrow from my mother and get into horrendous credit card debt (vicious circle).

All i hear from him is, "i just need to get this job (nightmare job) out of the way, then im going to change it around and make some money" great, but i hear it every single fucking job. The job he is working on this week, was supposed to bring some money in, but guess what, it is taking significantly longer than he thought . So i imagine he will be trotting the same old line out over again.

People have suggested i help out, more than i do, which is typing invoices and sorting the accounts. But its not possible for me to say how long a job will take, all i know is that it will take longer than he estimates and subsequently prices for.

Its coming up to time to pay the mortgage and he promised me faithfully there would be money - well, we have had no money for over two months now and he is borrowing from the mortgage overdraft and hadn't told me til he let it slip.

I've made hints that i want him to get a job, the frustrating thing that he could easily earn 30K, be home by 5-6 every night and not work weekends.

People have also suggested that I should get a job. Well maybe, BUT when i had DD we discussed this and both agreed that it would be better if i were a SAHM, DD starts school next year and i will definately be going back to work then. I would get a job in an instant if DP was earning his limit and we were still struggling, but he choses to do this. I suggested to him that I get a job now and he takes a year out to look after DD. He said that he really wants the business to work and that, you've guessed it, The next job................

Am i being selfish here?? I really can't stand much more - i would be financially more secure if i left and went on benefit. But how can i do that, DD adores her daddy and he adores her. I love him deeply too and i think he loves me (we have had a bad patch - is there any wonder). Im just sick of waking up everymorning withthe feeling that i need to rush to the medicine cabinet to take my ADs.

all of these posts make so much sense, thankyou. I have to admit that its not just him who doesnt want to give up on the business. I want it to work so much too. I feel a massive sense of failure, i just can't muster the motivation. He will waffle on about how xyz is going to be briliant and when i dont show any enthusiasm, he moans and says im not interested. But its the ten millionth time i've heard it - its like im living in some sort of sick groundhog day.

TBH there is no question of me leaving him, i love him and i love that he is trying to do this, which is why it is so hard for me to bring myself to tell him that its not working. It will destroy him.

Please someone give me a magic wand so i can make this work

LEM - no you are not being selfish, you are understandably very worried about how your dp is going to keep a roof over you and your dd's head.
I guess there is a lot of pride at stake here, on your dp's part. He wants to make a go of his business to give him a sense of achievement and to get the sort of job satisfaction you may not get when you work for someone else.
As you have said, there is only a year until your dd goes to school and unless you have access to free or very cheap childcare, it may not be worth your while going back to work, unless you know you can get something with a very good salary - is that a possibility with your PhD?
I think Squiffy may have hit the nail on the head (excuse the pun).
Wish I had more helpful advice to offer!

river, he has always been self employed as a carpenter, working for other people so never really been what you call secure. He started the business because he was having to have so much time off work to look after me (PND and illness ) that he lost his job, had lots of potential jobs so we thought, right, go for it. He faffed about for the first year, we both recognise that, butlast year got serious, but he took on some duff jobs (huge carrots little rewards) and we are still picking up the peices. He never wanted children, i have one from a previous relationship, although she is 17 now. We have been together 16 years. DD was an accident, i was completing my PhD and things were going to be financially rosy. However, i have never seen a man love his little girl the way DP loves DD, the bond they have is amazing and lovely to see, so despite him never wanting children he will agree that she is he best thing toever happen to him.

(hey ho, just had more debt collectors letters plop on the doormat).

I am sitting here thinking maybe i am being unreasonable, we have been through HELL, maybe its time for one last push?? or am i kidding myself?

That sounds like brilliant advice from squiffy.

Lucyellensmum, I remember some of your other threads and I am so sorry this is still not resolved.

Just a few other thoughts - you say it would be easy for your dp to get a 30k job in his trade. You may believe this, but does your dp believe this?

Has he got all the necessary qualifications as well as the experience? Is there a possibility that he might be very unconfident of his ability to land a 'proper' job? Almost as if he has been unemployed? Would he get good references or is something from his past standing in his way? I am just wondering that there may be a reason (possibly hidden from you) in his decision to be self employed and his stubborn refusal to look for a job. Also, is your dp in some way financially committed with his business so can't stop it or go part time without incurring a financial penalty? Are you sure you know all the financial details about his business? I know nothing about how businesses work but I am just wondering if he could be 'tied in' in some way to keeping it going.

Also, if he is busy trying to make a go of the business, it's a big mental leap for him to go job hunting. Has he got a good, current CV? If not, and you are satisfied that there's not hidden reason why your dh is unemployalble, can you offer to do his CV/update his CV for him? sit him down, talk through his skills and experience and get down on paper. I do this routinely with my dh, and I find that by sorting out his CV, this is a great confidence booster in itself. I have also searched for jobs for him on the internet and newspapers, got contact names and details of potential employers, made a list, given them to my dh along with his CV so all he has to do is phone up!(He has a recognised skill and quailfication, so when I search for jobs it is straighforward). I know it is spoonfeeding him but it works for us. He has gone on to take good jobs - jobs he stays at and he has then thanked me for sorting it out.

IME it is no good saying 'get a job' but much better to say 'here's a CV I've done for you - can you give me your comments' and 'what about this job I have seen - here are the details and this is the cmpany's phone number'

Also, regarding borrowing from your mother and credit cards - any way of telling your dp all funding is about to dry up, just to galvanise your dp into action? If you could somehow make it less easy for your dp to borrow, it might be a reality check.

Your dp sounds like he is in denial and I know how stressful that is to live with.

i think you need to force his hand, have read a lot of your posts on the same subject and that is no way to live. it takes a big man to admit it's not working out and that maybe working for himself is not the right thing for him at this time in your lives.

I don't think there is an easy way around this, but i think you need to get some help from someone in the trade he is in to make him be more realistic about how it needs to be done - could you find a good reputable company that would be willing for him to tag along woth them for a few days to see how it should be done on the management side? he may not like the idea but i think he needs to take a good look at where he is going wrong and what he needs to do to make it right

what line of business/trade is it?

Sorry x posts just seen that you have mentioned already

How long can you realistically keep the debt collectors at bay? because its seriously not worth loosing your house for is it?!

tiger, all he has to do is pick up the phone i daresay he could have work by the end of the week. He is VERY good at his job. That is not arrogance but its just htat the building trade runs very much on agency work and for good carpenters its very easy to get. Although im concerned it wont stay this way in the current climate. Thankyou for all your advice anyway

Im going to call him and ask him if this job is going to run over more than a day, and tell him, if it does, thats it - i wont put up with this anymore - its killing me (possibly quite literally, ive been suicidal about this more than once)

im not sure sparkles, i had to pay some yesterday, i had to literally raid the piggy bank - i was trying to save (albeit slowly) for a holiday in a few years time but that has just blown six months savings (just the odd pound coin and 50p) in one fell swoop. As for this lot today, i dont know.

Could you pass all those debt collection letters to your dp for him to look at and sort out?

It sounds like you are taking all the blows as you are the one who juggles the bills and faces the creditors. Make your dp phone up the debt collection companies himself- would this bring the reality of your situation home to him?

You could go further and say the stress of juggling the bills with an uncertain income is too much for you and you have to pass this on to your dp, as he is the one earning the money. I don't think your dp is taking your stress very seriously - he is denying it. Financial stress is affecting your health - really do all you can to make this point - tell him you've blacked out, your blood pressure is sky high etc etc due to stress. You cannot take it any longer.

saw the thread title and i knew this would be you ! i think squiffy's post is just spot on

what else would stop him from seeing that an income of £7 000 and not being able to pay your mortgage is acceptable? hope you get sorted

The problem is that anyone who runs their own business has to wear so many hats. My DH and I had a parallel situation - he's extremely good at what he does, but not good at the nuts and bolts of business, like pricing, quoting, promotion or strategy.

For the first few years the company ticked over, but only really kicked up a gear when I took over the pricing side of things. He was a bit when I more than doubled his hourly rate but he hasn't lost a single client and his new ones don't blink when he tells them.

His problem, and I would bet that your DH is exactly the same, is that my DH is a perfectionist. He would quote X pounds (another good decision we made was to stop billing in US dollars and bill only in euro and sterling!), thinking it was a five-hour job, but then decide that the report that he could do in five hours was inadequate so he would end up doing a report that took him three full days. Of course all his clients thought this was bloody marvellous - they'd get a superb piece of work for a small cost, but it was driving me up the wall.

Your DH needs to acknowledge that this business is not just his concern, it affects you in every way, and that it's time for full disclosure. There cannot be any worming out of difficult conversations. It sounds like you are just giving him support that is completely unreciprocated, and you are buckling under the stress. If he expects you to support him, he must support you too, and that means making sure you don't wake up with a ball of stress in your stomach every morning from your undiscussed worries.

Oh poo, the thread moved on while I was typing.

So there is absolutely nothing stopping him from getting a well paid job and he could pretty much start immediatelyr?

Well, in that case, IMO you should stop rushing around trying to sort out the finances. Just stop.

Tell your dh that is is impossible to keep afloat so you are giving up. But once you go back to work, you will take over running the finances again, but while he is the only breadwinner, you will not be involved.

A very unassetive way to sort this is to lay the blame somewhere else. Rather than saying "you are rubbish at this self-employed malarky" can you rephrase it as "with the credit crunch and downturn in the housing market, a clever person would forward-plan and get out now. Get yourself employed and then, if the worst comes to the worst, you can then get benefits" (cos the ex-employed get benefits that the ex-self-employed don't get).

ninedragons you have hit the nail exactly on the head!! Most of his clients get a job worth so much more than he pays. They get frustrated though cos he is so disorganised that he has to take much longer, start other jobs etc etc - In the end they are all happy because they have a fantastic peice of work for very little cost. Me on the other hand, i live in a house thats falling down around my ears that i dont care about anymore because i know that we will lose it, its just a question of time.

If your dh talked to your electricity supplier and knew the electricty would be cut off on a certain date, would that galvanise him into asking a higher price for his work to cover the electricity arrears?

i have to go and have a day now - been neglecting DD . Thankyou so much everyone for the advice and support - i honestly dont know where i would be without Mnet. I feel more positive - im going to tell him we need to talk properly about this, get him to sit down and look at his debt. To be fair, he sorts the bills out, i just open the letters and stres about it (not entirely helpfull). Somethign has to change - he needs to convince me that they will and fast, else thats it - i'll put my foot down - to be fair to him, i think he will respect that.

I feel quite sad about it really but i never wanted this business in the first place, thats not helpfull is it.

Hit him where it hurts: dinner tonight is beans on toast because that is all we can afford. That might bring him up short!!

LEM - can you try a compromise approach and get him to agree to do 10 days a month contract work, 12 days on his own business? Base your argument on needing X amount guaranteed to come in every month?

Also, does your dp worry about his own credit rating? Are the bills in your name, his name or both names?

It seems to get into the blood, the desire to be your own boss and succeed. I do think that employees in the construction industry are envied for their comfortable salary but also looked down on for not having the drive to run their own business so I can understand your dp wanting to make this work but business wise you have to know when to quit and re-group. The construction industry is pulling its horns in at the minute and employed positions may be harder to find as staff are made redundant and average salaries may well fall in the scramble to find jobs.

I know that you said that its important to you to be at home with dd but its also important to keep a roof over her head and presumably your dp supported you financially throughout your PhD so he has had the stress of being the sole earner even before your second dd came along and added to the household budget requirements.

I known you discussed with your dp about you staying at home with dd and agreed that it would be better for you to be a SAHM but that was before things got tough financially. I think you need to seriously reassess the SAHM decision, particularly as dd starts school next year anyway. The government fund about a day's childcare a week for the over three year olds and amny employers offer childcare vouchers which save tax and reduce the cost of childcare by £600 -£1,000 p.a.

Yes, your dp is not financially taking care of the family at present but you should be wary of issuing ultimatums that he provides for you properly as this seems a bit one-sided as you are not prepared to change what you do (i.e. give up being a SAHM) and he did fund you through your PhD.

How is you dp's mental state, is he worried deep down, how will this sort of deadline and ultimatum affect him ?

Could he take two days of agency work each week just to keep your heads above water? That way it's not the crushing feeling of having failed, he'd be just bringing enough money in to have the breathing space to really make a proper go of it. My theory is that most successful businesses start as sidelines or hobbies and grow gradually.

Something I have realised is that there's no point competing with the middle market if you're really good at what you do. If I were you and your husband, I would forget about making toyboxes or a nice bit of built-in pine shelving for Mrs Thingie down the road, I would go for the very top end of the market. If he's as good as you say he is, he should find himself a niche like restoring panelling in heritage-listed buildings or doing walk-in closets for WAGs and billionaires who are happy to pay to know there's the very finest walnut veneer at the back of their shoe cupboard.

Oh, I feel for you! I'm married to exactly the same kind of man. He even does almost exactly the same job.

Your DP needs a business partner, doesn't he? As he's a creative type, he is disorganised and arty and sod-asll good at the boring paperwork-and-calculator suff. Are you any good at that? If you are, I think you should do all you can to help him, tbh. You're a team, aren't you?

Maybe until he finds a poartner, he could do 3 weeks agency work + 1 week freelance work each month.

I know we don't do hugs here, but (((((LEM))))) I know how terrifying it is.

Nice typing in my above post