To think that, under the threat of "Let the war begin", there should be specific laws against male's entering female private spaces (and vice versa)

[SingleSexSpacesInSchools]

After being told they will not be allowed to enter female toilets, changing rooms, clubs and other private sexed spaces, men have vowed to "fight" or be arrested “multiple times”

https://archive.ph/tdkd0

"Let the war begin. Fingers crossed. You need to fight for all of us globally. It’s a war."

I think it is reasonable to have a specific crime for this sort of violation of rights and privacy, rather than Outraging public decency, Voyeurism, Exposure/ indecent exposure.

It seems clear that without firm dealing with, men are going to violate these spaces again and again.

Trans people can be trans all they want, Tandora. But they still need to use services aligning with their biological sex, no matter how much they identify as or feel to be something else.

The time has passed for all the Stonewall-esque “I believe it to be so, so that is what it is” shite. Reality is back in the room.

trans is not a philosophical belief
and also
a transwoman understands themself to be female

this is correct.

Being trans is psychological / cognitive. It doesn’t follow that it is a “philosophical belief”.

This is a misunderstanding.

Sexual desire is a cognition / cognitive- but not a philosophical belief.

Hunger is a cognition - not a philosophical belief.

I could go on listing things that are psychological/ cognitive without being philosophical beliefs for a long, long time.

Trans people can be trans all they want, Tandora. But they still need to use services aligning with their biological sex

these two things are entirely incompatible with each other.

And yet same sex attraction and hunger are physical states of being that reflect material reality.

The same cannot be said for the group of people who believe they have a transgender identity.

……But but trans people are this, that, and whatever else they say/think/believe about themselves. Crack on, have a field day with self identifying.

So what? The bottom line is that they’re men. The rest is guff.

And yet same sex attraction and hunger are physical states of being that reflect material reality

right. And so it exactly is with being trans. You just refuse to accept this because you’ve made up your mind you know better/ different. But you are wrong.

The bottom line is that public toilet provision is segregated by sex if it is segregated.

If one group refuse to use the provision for their sex, for whatever reason, they need to use an alternative provision. They should not be using a provision they are excluded from based on their sex.

As you say. The rest is guff.

“The rest is guff” indeed.

Tough. We don’t always get everything we want.

It’s not about “getting everything we want”. It’s about protecting basic, fundamental human rights- respect for the core humanity/ dignity of the person, basic rights to privacy, protection from discrimination, etc.

And you have never provided evidence, to my knowledge, that supports your claims. If you have recently done this, then please do link it up so we can all see it.

You cannot even coherently explain it. And you keep telling us you are highly qualified in this exact area.

You can keep telling me I am wrong, but you have also told me many other things in the past that have been falsehoods. So you just telling me I am wrong is not something that I take seriously.

If you have evidence, please post it.

If not, then around we will go again.

And female people have human rights needs too.

The Supreme Court already considered those things in their judgment @Tandora and felt that it was more important that the Equality Act protected characteristic of sex, which governs single sex spaces, reflected the reality of biological sex and the greater needs of women and girls to single sex spaces when vulnerable.

Well, that’s tough tits then. Reality’s a bitch but she ain’t changing.

Believing oneself to be the opposite sex is a belief that is not congruent with reality. A delusion.

Helle I’ve posted lots of articles and completed hours of clear, logical explaining

You’ve made up your mind - there’s nothing I can say or do that will change it.

There is no one article I can post here that will definitively “prove” to you that being trans is not a “philosophical belief”.

if you are interested in scientific evidence on what it is to be trans, type the word “transgender” into any scientific database / search engine/ journal index and you will pull up 10,000s of articles on the subject, with an absolute mountain of cross disciplinary evidence, the overwhelming majority of which will support a position/ understanding that being trans is a real, legitimate material and stable axis of human diversity.

It’s actually fascinating to watch peoples brains fall out because women (most women, not the transmaidens) have said a big fat no to the wishes of some men.

The invention of new language, to paper over the words that describe a woman’s experience of being female in this world. The NoDebate & the idea of misgendering to stop people saying ‘He’s a man.’ People tying themselves in knots to deny that sex is binary and a stable category.

It really gives a good insight Into cults & how authoritarian systems arise. The sleep walking, cowardice & inanity is awful to observe.

It’s so funny that before men started barging into women’s spaces no one cared about these ‘butch lesbians’ who are suddenly (and conveniently) all being challenged.

Or maybe it was that women were more confident that the slightly manly looking person was definitely going to be a woman because men weren’t going into women’s spaces?

Why are you so determined to get men into women’s spaces and not help find a solution that suits all?

People don't have the right to claim protections afforded to a minority because of their belief that they feel like they are said minority. Especially not when they are a member of the class that the minority is being protected from.

Women's rights afford women protection from men because men as a sex class present a threat to women. It's absurd to say that men can identify into the class of women, for many reasons, but especially this one.

This especially applies to the body of “evidence” Tandora is pointing to. Especially the last line. There’s lots of guff in academia. See the entire career of Judith Butler. Men still aren’t women tho, to quote Meghan Murphy.

Right. And the reality is that trans people are here to stay , being exactly who they are which is trans, and sooner or later you are going to have to get over it.

As was pointed out on a thread a few weeks ago, in the old days when all sorts of public services were funded, toilet attendants, typically ferocious older women, existed and did indeed police access. Male? no entry. Drunk? no entry. Known criminal? no entry. No money for the slot machine? - hmmm, long think about that one.

Public loos were safe and clean and there were a lot more of them.

Maybe it wasn't such a bad system.

So if you have posted them, you should have access to the links at your fingertips.

post away!

But I also see another issue. You have attributed the characteristics of ‘clear’ and ‘logical’ to your attempts of explanation. I have watched so many people point out to you that, ‘no, there is no clarity or logic to your explanations’.

You claim repeatedly that you are an expert in this field. If you cannot clearly and logically explain the very central premise of your expertise, that really does say something.

You keep telling me and others to do our own research. This has been your fall back position for years. The issue is that you claim expertise, you fail at providing clarity and logic while claiming success at providing clarity and logic. And the truth is, if you had provided clear and logical explanations, many of us would have listened and taken it all on board and adapted our thinking.

Telling me that I have made up my mind is your own prejudiced belief about me. And that is fine, you can express that prejudice. I think though you need to start actually being the ambassador for your chosen cause and start being free with those links and if people tell you that your explanations are not clear and logical, accept that as a failure on your behalf and not that they are prejudiced or not clever enough or however you choose to dismiss it.

Ok.

Excellent !! So, what should we expect then. Evidence links or finally a clear and logically consistent explanation?

Be the self-identified ambassador that you have claimed to be. Be free and forthcoming with those links and that evidence!