To think that, under the threat of "Let the war begin", there should be specific laws against male's entering female private spaces (and vice versa)

[SingleSexSpacesInSchools]

After being told they will not be allowed to enter female toilets, changing rooms, clubs and other private sexed spaces, men have vowed to "fight" or be arrested “multiple times”

https://archive.ph/tdkd0

"Let the war begin. Fingers crossed. You need to fight for all of us globally. It’s a war."

I think it is reasonable to have a specific crime for this sort of violation of rights and privacy, rather than Outraging public decency, Voyeurism, Exposure/ indecent exposure.

It seems clear that without firm dealing with, men are going to violate these spaces again and again.

please don’t be disingenuous in the meantime

I don’t know what you mean by this?

Gender dysphoria is in the DSM 5 yes.

Gender dysphoria is the acute distress that can result from experiencing gender/ sex incongruence (I.e. being trans). It is not the same thing as being trans.

it was the recognition of this that resulted in the diagnosis being changed from the old characterisation - gender identity disorder - to gender dysphoria, the latter being the distress that can result from being trans.

Thank you for confirming that trans = gender dysphoria = listing in the DSM5.

Until Gender dysphoria is removed from the DSM5 it is classified as a psychiatric condition - in shorthand a mental illness.

If you object to that classification then campaign to change that

Why does this group get this special treatment?

Exactly. I guess society has always had to tread carefully with angry entitled men. Moreover in this issue it’s ‘only women’ who are most affected, so for much of the population it’s a ‘You what?’ topic.

Thank you for confirming that trans = gender dysphoria

errrmmm. 😂
Baffling 🤷🏼‍♀️

There has already been real world violence.

All of the violence has come from the TRA side and been directed mostly at women.

I'm talking actual physical violence here, as well as the decapitate TERFS signs, and the evidence of trans identified men talking violently about women all archived on the TERF is a slur website, which is a shocking eye opener for those who haven't already seen it. And that's not even going into the actual real life harms done to GC women who have been no platformed, fired, harassed, arrested but not charged, questioned by the police, etc etc etc

Women on the other hand, have not been violent at all.

All we have done is say no to men, we've campaigned for our rights by crowdfunding for tribunals, writing letters and submitting FOIs, putting simple stickers or fliers up, connecting with other GC women from all political parties and across the world, and talking to people (and this is the really important bit) calmly, with nuance and compassion, but backed up by evidence, science, and the law.

The difference has been stark.

@CohensDiamondTeeth

Perfectly put. Let’s wait for the redefinition of violence apparently perpetrated against these men by women defending their sex based rights.

There’ll also be something about Nazis attending women’s meetings. Plus something about right to exist & most marginalised. I could go on but we all know the tropes & lies.

🍿

Well then surely they’d be better off in the male changing room. With the other males.

You said:

Gender dysphoria is the acute distress that can result from experiencing gender/ sex incongruence (I.e. being trans). It is not the same thing as being trans.

So how can you be trans without gender dysphoria? Surely that’s transvestism?

Why are male toilets not an option for transwomen who are indeed men?

Note your complete disregard for women and girls who cannot use the toilets designated for them on the basis of their sex due to men forcing their way in there. Never any consideration for women and girls from you and their wants and needs and their lack of access to public facilites and hence public life. As ever all about the men.

This is my point. Someone has started a thread based on, as far as I can tell, an anonymous tweet from a now deleted account, about ‘war’. It’s inflammatory and stokes the flames on an issue that is already heading in a nasty direction.

If you are saying you’re fine with actual violence towards people because it’s in response to other violence other people who think the same as them might have done then OK. I just don’t ever think that’s OK, as much as I might personally want to eg do my own little violence against the anti immigrant protesters

But as Nigel Farage has come out on the TRA side… surely they’d be better are now the Nazis? I mean, the Right wing reform party agree with Tandora so by TRA logic…. @tandora is now far right. 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

🤣🤣 I’m sure Tandora can refute that with their many years of scientific research & long hard thinking about gender issues.

Whatever their answer they’ll still assert that man can insert themselves into women’s spaces.

Which side is the violent rhetoric coming from? It’s a TRA quote in an article.

It’s very dishonest to pretend that the GC side is threatening or advocating “war”. That’s the men and their allies.

Why are male toilets not an option for transwomen who are indeed men?

Because they are trans women.
its no more of an option for a trans woman to use the men’s toilets than it is for a non-trans woman to use the men’s toilets. It’s completely incompatible with their privacy, dignity and safety .

Since when was it society’s obligation to provide publicly accessed toilets for a group of people who refuse to use the public toilet for their own sex?

It is good that there are some alternatives offerred. But the reality is, if a group of male people refuse to use the toilet provided for male people, why is that society’s issue to find a solution?

There are numerous posts on MN from female people with transgender identities that take testosterone who understand that their presence in a female space might distress other female people. So they seek alternative solutions for themselves.

If female people do this already, why can’t male people? Why do women and girls need to be emotionally manipulated to allow a group of male people to access a space that was never meant for them as male people?

What @Helleofabore said. “No” is a complete sentence not an invitation to negotiate.

By that reasoning TW shouldn’t be in the women’s either tho?

So every woman and girl must put up with every voyeur/ flasher/ sex pest who wants to invade women’s spaces. We must not say No to men in case it hurts their feelings.

OK, got it. Shame on women who think they, or their daughters, have human rights.

Nope. Women sharing the women’s toilets with the occasional trans woman, is not the same as an individual woman using the men’s toilets.

No respecting trans people’s rights to use basic facilities has nothing to do with promoting allowing voyeurimg/ flashing/ sex pesting

It's proof positive that no-one, absolutely no-one, believes transwomen are women, if they did they would not be bowing down to them, they know they are men hence the special treatment. Misogyny and cowardice writ large.

You only have to look at the exception in the GRA regarding peerages and landed estates which shows that transwomen are regarded as men.

Yes I have.
I believe it is impossible for people to change sex and therefore a person born male will always be male.
If I’m getting fully undressed in a communal changing room I do not wish to do so in the presence of males, it doesn’t matter to me that all the transpeople you know are wonderful lovely people. Unless you’re going to personally vouch for every single transwoman, or indeed any other male, who wants to be in a female single sex space knowing that it’s now impossible for some females to use that space. They’re all wonderful lovely people, every man.

I know my boss is a nice bloke but I’m not going to get undressed in front of him. Not even if he’s wearing a dress and calling himself Tiffany.

Do you think that middle aged men should have the legal and moral right to enter a changing room where teenage girls are getting undressed? Should that man be allowed to get naked in there himself?
You really think that’s ok?

That was not my point at all. The thread was started posting something about ‘war’ apparently from the pro trans side. I can find no evidence of the original post, who made it, whether it was someone stirring shit, whether it was a false flag or someone with 40k followers who regularly posts violent rhetoric against GC people, nothing. So, it seems to me that something very nebulous was taken and used to make GC people feel unsafe when there’s no evidence that it was real or a genuine threat or… anything really. That’s my issue

It’s exactly the same in reverse, the “occasional trans woman” shouldn’t be in the women’s toilets because “trans women” are biologically and legally men.