To think women who say “I’m just one of the lads” secretly crave male approval?

[TheFluentCrow]

I always hear women saying this as though it’s a badge of honour. But isn’t it really just about wanting validation from men and distancing themselves from other women?

Oh God, me too!

I think it very much depends on the context.

When I was serving in the Army - obviously a very male-dominated field - it became very apparent which “category” the women fell into (in the eyes of our male colleagues) very quickly.

1. Which ones were there to get the job done without complaint and had no sexual/romantic interest in colleagues,
2. which ones would rely on the fact that they are female to attempt to get softer treatment
3. which ones were happy to engage in flirtation/sexual relationships with male colleagues and these were often the people who would use the phrase “one of the lads” the most often.

There honestly wasn’t much cross-over between the three categories at all. That in turn made it very obvious how each “category” were viewed by our male colleagues. Category number 1, were treated no different from the men. Almost as if after a short time where the women in category number 1 had made it clear they were firmly in category number 1, colleagues sort of forgot they were female if that makes sense? Category number 2 were viewed as a pain, and male colleagues would find a way to avoid working with them, particularly if there was a heavy physical task to be done. Category number 3 were popular among male colleagues - for obvious reasons 🫠 But as a result of the pick-me-girl behaviour, they’d very often be overlooked and earned little respect in a professional sense.

So I’d say that “being one of the lads” depends very much on who is saying that.
If it’s the male contingent of the group using that phrase to describe a woman, I think it’s safe to say that’s how they view her: as an equal to their male friends/colleagues and sexually off-limits.
If it’s a women using it to describe herself, I immediately assume it’s pick-me-girl behaviour 🫣

What the fuck are you talking about?😃

@ThatCyanCat

That particular "not like other girls" attitude, which of course is not the same as simply being yourself and happening to have mostly male friends, is no different to cultivating an uber (stereotypical) feminine persona where you pride yourself on men liking you because you're a tradwife who loves baking and homemaking and being submissive, not like those horrible bitter feminists. It's all the same sort of pandering.

I agree with this.

There are women who naturally gravitate towards stereotypically male environments/pastimes and women who gravitate towards traditionally female ones. All good.

Women who cultivate a "one of the blokes" image by doing a lot of beery, blokey activities in a very self-conscious "look at me I'm such a lad" way and women who cultivate a precious, delicate flower persona and speak when they're spoken to are two sides of the same coin.

As long as its being done authentically I couldn't care less. If its done for the male gaze/male appreciation it's a pain in the arse.

Having worked in aale dominated industry for a few decades Then more recently downside and I've worked in two jobs with women I can hands down day blokes are easier and more fun to work with.
Yes they gossip sometimes and I said leave me out of it to
I didn't drink after work or talk about football but I was accepted by them.
My first female team giggled gossiped and generally bullied me so I got my current place.
Lots of women mostly lovely but the odd one or two and the sideways glanced begin.
Quite judgemental and always looking to criticise others or customers for kicks.
Recently though I was diagnosed with a neurodiverse condition.
Maybe that's why I prefer the blokes as they are straight forward with less silly rules.

Women are horrid. As someone who was bullied at school and when I went to work found some of the school bullies there as well the bullying continued. I was turning into a bit of a hermit, hated work and spent my evenings and weekends on my own reading and watching films. My brother was basically told to take me along on some of the days out he and his friends had. I went along being tolerated mostly as my brothers sister. After a while I was simply one of the group. No more 'tolerating' I was simply expected to be there same as any of the others. Days out, curry evenings, pub etc.

I eventually married one of them though we had several days out together before we even thought of it as dating. Just two mates together, he's still my 'mate'.

So as far as I'm concerned being one of the lads was much preferable to trying to be one of the girls.

Internalised misogyny init.
I work in a male dominated industry, 30 years in and I have seen this so many times.

Boys and men can be bullies too though. You met some horrible women, doesn't mean all or most are. Not all men are lovely either.

It's partly about keeping everything male as the frame of reference. I don't think women who say that necessarily realise it. There is also a part of it that is about camaraderie, which is not necessarily a bad thing in itself.

I think what 'one of the lads' women never seem to grasp when lauding their men only friendship groups as so superior to female ones, is that they have never experienced a male friendship group. They seem to miss the rather obvious point that their own presence prevents it from being a male group, alters the dynamic and typically prevents them from seeing men at their worst. Men don't talk about women behind their back. Men don't have drama. Men don't have silly rules? Of course they do. They're just not involving you in these things because you're NOT one of the lads. You're an ordinary woman, just like the rest of us.

IME men are only friends with women they want to shag or would shag if they were single.

And women who are only friends with men and don’t like women get off on being fancied and flirted with in the guise of friendship.

I worked with someone like this. She was also apparently into the stereotypical male interests like football, cricket, wrestling etc.

Lack of deep emotional development isn't less drama. Lest anyone forget about that 1 in 3 men abuse women.

You understand male politics because its the default and we live under male rule which incentivizes us to distance ourselves from women and overlook the vast emotional landscape of women and the lack of it from men as positive. Men don't need to overtly control us when society has trained us to see them as idealized.

This often also points to lack of self awareness. When you are aware of your own flaws, reactions, limits, thoughts you are able to better manage social rules and politics and accurately assign feelings better. This shows all types of red flags for someone who is struggling with internalized shame as well as denial. Its a very normal reaction and it takes some years to develop tools to improve self awareness.

We all have different survival tactics and we all have to do our best.

I think some people are missing the topic, its not about having male friends, thats not what OP was saying/suggesting.

I have male and female friends, but Its regarding women who proudly state all other women hate them they have no female friends they are one of the lads and either have an agenda with that or, from reading this thread, very low self esteem and its about some form of acceptance

I had a boss like that. Always proudly saying how women hated her and men loved her.

Yeah, no shit. She was vile to and about other women. Awful comments all the time. Who would like a person like that?

Yep. In my youth I was friends with a house full of lads and was round there quite a lot. One time I was in an area where you wouldn't see me if you'd just entered in the main door. A couple of them came in and didn't realise I was there. They were in the middle of settling a minor dispute with a semi playful fight that definitely got too much for one of them (he conceded and got mocked for it) and someone belched very loudly. They were utterly horrified when they realised I was there.

Having someone of the opposite sex there changes the dynamic.

They’re easier to get on with when you don’t live with them!

I also think women see it as a compliment to themselves and feel hidden sense of inferiority because it takes little emotional depth to be friends with males but women demand a certain level of awareness, collaboration, understanding--this all leads back to heightened emotional intelligence and shared experiences. If other women sense that another woman is lacking in the fundamentals, relationships can be strained. However, we're all at a varying point in our lives and there are room for women who are male identified or hateful towards other women. If these women don't want female friendships they don't have to but the confusion over their identity is another issue that maybe they can work out in therapy. I've had horrifying experiences with people of similar races, we have different values, ideology but it would be incorrect for me to say I don't like them even though they don't like me. You go where your values are aligned. However, I would caution that aligning values with men isn't the compliment that they believe it to be. Whatever way these women seek safety and power, I have no right to criticize. They often think we don't understand them but most of us do and maybe they sense that as insulting rather than a knowing.

You’d be surprised. A lot of women do and are found very desirable - mainly teens-30’s probably. They’re likely seen as easy to get on with and more sexually adventurous I’d guess

I agree. A lot of men go for this sort of woman, drinking and swearing. It's much less effort to approach them, and of course a woman who has drunk alcohol is an easier lay than one who hasn't.

OMG she wasn't into dressmaking, WI, flower arranging!

Nothing wrong with liking sports. I go to traction engine shows, steam railways, air shows along with my OH and friends.

I never used those words, but I probably was one of the lads back in my late teens and early twenties in that most of my friends were male and I was involved in traditionally male pursuits. At the time it seemed most young women were getting into fashion and makeup and that just wasn’t me, I had no clue how to dress and I just wasn’t interested. Also I found a lot of women to be bitchy and two faced, and again than wasn’t me. Men were just easier to get on with, you knew where you stood. However, I always made it a point to be friendly to any of my male friend’s girlfriends. I was very conscious that some women might not be comfortable with their boyfriend having a a close female friend so I would actively try to put them at ease. I care about my friends and would never want to cause a problem in anyone’s relationship.

Now that I’m older I’ve found more women who are like me and my friends are a mix of both sexes. To be honest, I’m quite upset to hear people saying that preferring male friends makes me a “pick me” girls, though the fact that any women would think that about me pretty much sums up the reason I preferred male company, see my previous comment about bitchiness 🙄. In hindsight, and with one daughter already diagnosed and the second awaiting assessment, I think it’s very likely that I am in fact autistic. But hey, pick me, pick me!!! 🙄🙄