To think women who say “I’m just one of the lads” secretly crave male approval?

[TheFluentCrow]

I always hear women saying this as though it’s a badge of honour. But isn’t it really just about wanting validation from men and distancing themselves from other women?

@iwentjasonwaterfalls I’m glad you recovered quickly from your experience of female peer-group bullying and had the strength of character to pull yourself through it. Can you see that not everyone will have the same experience as you, or do you anyway advise everyone who has childhood trauma to “just grow up”? It’s seems a very harsh attitude.

I was sexually abused as a young girl (by an adult male) and it took me a long time to be comfortable around boys or men who took a sexual interest in me. I like men, and I enjoy their company enormously, but I prefer being with them in a social/work group situation than 1:1.

The SA left me vulnerable in many ways; I was by nature a gentle, easily dominated and sensitive girl - a perfect victim.

I was then bullied as a teen by some of my female classmates and in the end my female friends were persuaded by the bullies that I was “not cool” and my friends enjoyed bullying me too. They would run hot and cold; sometimes nice, sometimes extremely cruel; sometimes I would be “in Coventry” and might not talk to me for several days with no explanation. By the start of year 10 i was regularly being encouraged to kill myself by one of my former female friends - she clearly enjoyed inflicting this torture on me. Enjoyed it, I would hear her laugh about it in form-time with other pupils.

I was a social pariah and so the other girls did not dare speak to me in case the bullying spread to them too (this is how the bullies worked; they wouldn’t let any of their multiple victims form any alliances). In the end I did manage to find a few female friends through the last years of school but I have never found it easy to trust women.I form excellent female friendships but I tend to let them fizzle out.

For me being “a lad” was definitely not a humble brag. I genuinely loved hanging out with guys in my 20s and 30s, playing or watching sport, having a pint, participating in a 24hr PlayStation marathon, whatever.

The bitterness and judgement on this thread is a bit painful and reminds me how unkind women can be to other women.

I think if you were brought up with just brothers and no sisters sometimes it is easier to talk to men. I think to actually say this is odd and as I get older I find I prefer female company now anyway.

I'm sorry but there is no way the world has divided itself into not liking you or loving you based purely on their own sex. There will be self fulfilling prophecy and affirmation bias in spades here. Honestly, if I were you, I'd really try to work this one through, because you can't go through life believing this. What if you have a daughter? Or ever have to manage a mixed sex team?

Yes.

Largely because they're behaving in ways that the men would never behave towards each other.

@5128gap I disagree. She can happily go on believing that. She’s unlikely to stunt her DD’s development just because she doesn’t have a gaggle of female friends.

And managing a team isn’t about liking people - you can get on perfectly well with people without being their friend.

Complerely agree with you @TheFluentCrow

We will never have equality until we all appreciate and value being female.

None of us are ever just one of the lads, anyone who thinks they are have an honesty issue.

Apologies for the sarcasm but I struggle to believe there's anybody who doesn't believe pick mes behave that way because of male attention.

Thetr is lots of women who cravs male attention it is why so many put men before their many children it ain't news

IME it really depends on the person.

I think it depends on the individual. If asked, I’m generally one of the lads. At school, I would have said tomboy and friends/family said the same, so it wasn’t performative or for attention/validation. It just so happens that despite having only a family of females, girls/women I’ve met in school and at work have not been my kind of people. I have found most of them bitchy, competitive, gossipy and like with mums at the school gate, wanting to talk about other women for whatever reason and normally critically. Men have been far more interesting to me as the ones I’ve been around have had conversations about meaningful things that I’m interested in (not girly things which I’m not). They haven’t chosen to talk to me because of who I am, what I’ve got and how they think it will benefit them. They don’t want to palm their kids off on me for childcare or to counsel them their marriage issues. That’s just me though and I appreciate it’s the people I’ve also come into contact with. I certainly don’t aim to appear cool to men or spend time with them to get them into bed etc.

What does "one of the lads" mean? How does it manifest?

Ummm.

So women are allowed to be like men in every respect. Work in the same jobs as men. Earn the same money as men. Take on the same responsibilities as men. And doing it because they want to.

But in social interactions if they want to behave more like men in their peer group, it must be because they want to impress men.

Maybe they just like that particular lifestyle/social interaction. And because we live in a world where people are more free to be who they want to be than ever, they are free to choose it.

It usually means a woman who blends in easily with a group of men - joins in with banter, drinks, jokes, often seen as ‘low drama’ or “not like the other girls.” Sometimes it’s just comfort in that space but sometimes it’s used to subtly position themselves as different or better than other women, which is where it gets interesting.

I feel a bit sorry for women that don't like other women so don't have any close female friends. My female friends are wonderful and at times have been literal life-savers. Women can be so fabulous, so it is sad not to be able to see that and benefit from the life-enhancing richness of long-term female friendship. Their loss, I suppose.

It has a name. Its called identification with the aggressor. Its a defense mechanism to avoid vulnerability. By pledging loyalty and supplanting your own sex you get alignment and proximity to those in power. By shunning being powerless, they signal, I'm not one of the weak women. I'm in the club, you can't judge me by social standards. I have power through abdication of my own and proximity to men. The status is only conditional and never lasts long before there is violence and requests for higher levels of compliance. And inevitably rape.

I've always got on better with male friends, and worked in male environments. I'm an ugly female, so the girls didn't want to be friends. I survived by trying to be the funny one. I'm not funny either, so I guess I was just trying to survive with crippling low self esteem.

Do not care. If that’s the way some people want to assuage their insecurities, it isn’t affecting me.

I find this tired, gendered stereotyping really tedious. Men and women are individual beings. Liking football doesn’t make women laddish. Liking fashion doesn’t make men effeminate. And anyone who thinks men are not given to cliques should take a glance at the CEO board of the nearest large corporation. I can almost guarantee what you’re going to find.

Some people are arseholes. Some aren’t. Most are some combination of the two.

You are disagreeing based on things other than what the poster actually said. The poster didn't talk about gaggles of girlfriends or not liking women herself. She expressed the belief that men love her and women don't like her. This is not a healthy belief to have about oneself, because it can't possibly be true based on the sex of other people alone. If the poster has a daughter, she will presumably believe there's a good chance the child will dislike her, for no other reason than the childs sex, while any son will love her. If she manages a mixed sex team it will be neither professionally or personally helpful for her to believe the female half of the team will by default dislike her and the males love her. You must be able to see the potential problems with that.

And no, you don't have to like people to manage them, but if you decide in advance who you're going to like as a manager based on their sex, you're an ET waiting to happen.

Men are just easier! Far less drama. Most of my life the vast majority of my friends have been male, I've been on more stag do's than hen do's because of this.
It's not "pick me" or wanting validation, i just prefer the lower stress friend group and one of my hobbies is mostly male orientated.

I don't think there's anything 'secret' about it.

As a late teen/twenties I often preferred hanging out with lads than girls, girls were often so competitive and bitchy IME and the lads were just less complicated. Of course I had female friends and there were horrible lads I really didn't like - but in general I found lads easier.

Once I got to 40 that was really starting to change, I really started to enjoy the company of women more and now at 50 men are generally really tedious to me and women have come into their own. Now I have really great female friends and a very few men that I really like.

I can’t bear gossip either. It’s unpleasant, it’s toxic and it’s also boring. I cut it off at the knees if anyone approaches me in this vein as I am simply not interested.

But this doesn’t make me more in alignment with men’s perceived traits. It makes me a woman who can’t stand gossip. I suspect there are a lot of us about. And there’s a male colleague on my corridor - much as I otherwise like him - who is one of the most incurable gossips I’ve ever met.

I take people as I find them individually but I dont do girlie, cant stand the idea of spa days, dont fake anything on my body and dont need to spend all my talking about men while also complaining how terrible they are, I dont do gossiping and got along with parents at school drop off and pick up like they were part of the human race not some collective drama causing 'school mums' (heck threre was even school dads there!), I dont create or assume drama because I am insecure, I also don't assume all females are like that it just seems like that on here

I dont need to have close female friends just because I am female myself and cant work out why on earth this is something to be sorry for? or not

There are nice normal me and woman and just seems it is the women (I presume men) who have issues who cant sse it and cant get their head around everyone is not same going on what their body bits are what shape

I suppose you're right. Maybe that was why I tended to not "groom" myself so as to not be attractive when with male friends.

"Not like other girls."

If you can't fight the misogyny, capitalise on it. Get kudos for agreeing that women are shit but position yourself as a superior one. Men who fall for this never actually believe it from them, though. As soon as they step out of line they get the same treatment as other girls. Yes, it's total pandering.