To think women who say “I’m just one of the lads” secretly crave male approval?

[TheFluentCrow]

I always hear women saying this as though it’s a badge of honour. But isn’t it really just about wanting validation from men and distancing themselves from other women?

boils down to stereotypes again doesn’t it.

Women are bitches
men are simple creatures

”one of the lads” is a female who enjoys “male” hobbies like football and beer.

many women don’t fit the shopping, wine, and gossip stereotype. I don’t enjoy it at all. I don’t wear make up, like science and sport.

i tend not to enjoy “girl’ nights” because that’s not what I like. I don’t overly engage with women at work because topics of conversation are almost exclusively their diet, kids, and where to get lip filler and Botox. I don’t need to be that person who calls them out for their “boys are simple, girls are bitchy” gender crap. I can do that here 😂

i prefer to chat to my male colleagues, just general chit chat, but no concern about calories is the main thing.

it’s not about my friends sex, except it is when they choose to adhere to stereotypes and restrict their interests accordingly.

I am someone who has historically said ‘ women don’t like me” and it’s not through lack of trying over the years. I have just never been successful in maintaining or developing new friendships with woman and I honestly don’t know the reason. I have done much soul searching and consider myself self- reflecting and not ignorant to any flaws, but still I have no close female friends and sit on the periphery of any females I do know.

When I was late teens/20’s I socialised with a large group of mixed sex. I found myself having more in common, in terms of hobbies, music, opinion etc with the men in the group so naturally had more conversations ( all single so no misunderstanding from any girlfriends) but the woman in the group didn’t like that and would have probably called me a ‘ pick me’ if that term existed

I made effort with the girls in the group and organised many girl only evenings round mine or weekends away but it never amounted to long term friendship

there have been other occasions over a the years that I have tried to mix in with women, especially when I had children and all the baby groups were female dominant

I work in a male industry and mix with 90% men all day and holistically speaking I do find them more direct, less nuance and very clear communication. I have, by contrast found some women to be dishonest, indirect and judgmental. This is my lives experience for the last 30 years and I have no idea why.

I long for the relationships with females that so many people have. I am an only child and don’t have sisters, or aunts or cousins so my world can feel small sometimes

I think saying ‘I’m one of the lads’ is a bit odd - reminds me of Sara Cox necking pints. But I do understand women who are more comfortable around men. I’ve always had male friends, gay and straight.
I have many female friends too but find I often get along better with their husbands (some but not all) my hobbies and interests are more typically enjoyed by men, too. I really can’t help that - definitely not intentional and it’s been that way since I was child.
All the weddings I’ve been to in the last few years have been for my male friends and their wives didn’t seem to have an issue with me - I’ve thorough enjoyed seeing my dearest friends happily married - it’s beautiful! but I know my place and definitely conscious that I need to be respectful.
I even have a bit of a male gait and although I’m feminine in looks and dress, there is a masculine side that comes through that I can’t suppress.

I'm talking about the couple who sit on laps, grab bums, talk about their sexploites to titillate. And then when told it's not appropriate retreat back to it's fine because they don't mean anything by it. I was, very clear in the post that it isn't all the women, but a couple who behave in a way that they know crosses a line and then when challenged retreat to "I'm just one of the guys, they can possibly see ME like that"

I don’t think it’s so much about women who have male friends. It’s more woken who make it a massive part of their personality.

‘I’m just one if the lads’
’I get on better with men’

and that kind of thing. These things don’t need announcing

I had a distinct ‘advantage’ in being able to interact comfortably with boys and men in the fact I grew up with a domineering older brother who forced me to watch male-oriented tv shows and films from a young age as well as video games, things my female peers weren’t forced into introduced to so were weirded out or just not interested in them. I didn’t like them all but it certainly shaped that side of my interests and being able to see certain things from a male perspective and be used to (not accept) certain grim traits.

Why do you think women should go out of their way to be 'the approachable group' to women who prejudge them as 'bitchy' 'clicky' (sic) 'two faced', only interested in gossip, spa days and grooming, simply on the basis of their sex? Why is the onus on women to prove the prejudice wrong and win the women who don't like other women over? Personally, if a woman has decided that I'm not good enough for her by comparison with a man on the basis of a bunch of traits she's projected on to me, then the last thing I'm going to do is try to befriend her. There's plenty of women (men too) who wont dislike me because of my sex, so they'll get my time, and the 'I don't like other women' women won't. (And then they complain some more that 'women are mean and don't like me'.)

I was bullied by girls at several points in my school years. I’ve never been bullied by boys. There were no girls my age in the village where I lived, but there were a couple of boys who looked out for me, and we hung out together. Then I went to university and did a STEM course that was over 90% male students. I would have been pretty lonely if I couldn’t be “one of the lads” during those years.

I honestly think the only reason that most men would be friends with a woman is that they find her attractive. Even if they never act on it, they will still fancy them and have that hope that one day, they might get a shag out of it.

Women are in it for friendship and how they get on with someone, men are in it for their dicks.

Thats a hill I will die on.

How very Mumsnet of you to assume this is naive

I always got on better with men. My 2 best friends are women, but other than that all my good friends are guys. Was like that all my life. Much less drama. I dont want any of those friends to “pick me”. I also get on with their partners and they get on with mine.

5128gap

I mean all the judgy horrible comments on this thread!!!

😂 It’s called a conversation , you can answer any posters on here. That’s how it works.

Can't imagine why women don't like you. Yes, they're definitely the ones with the problem. And oh yes, men all get on so well with each other... <consults a history book....>

She has a laugh and jokes, doesn't cause drama? But most women are like this.

I'm unsure how those behaviours are her implying she is better. She just sounds happy to me.

Am I missing something?

“Talking about shopping” yes because that’s what women talk about

No, but they might be talking about your body and how they’d fuck you if they could behind your back, or in a WhatsApp group (which is what happened with a group of men knew, we were all late 30s at the time).

But then you're not the kind of woman who this thread refers to? It isn't about women who hang around with men. Quite frankly my workplace is 95% male (almost shockingly skewed). I drink with them, I get on with them. It's about the subset of women who like to be the centre of male attention and cross normal social boundaries to make themselves feel attractive under the guise of being one of the lads.

I've no idea what 'very Mumsnet' even means. Both you and I are here on MN, so presumably anything either of us say could be classed as 'Mumsnet' by virtue of the fact. Yet we are saying opposing things. So very mumsnet doesn't appear to mean very much at all, does it?
Anyone who believes men don't talk about women behind their backs is exceptionally naive. Because they do. I know this, as I've heard them. And it's obviously more valid to have witnessed that something has happened, than to have an optimistic idea that it hasn't.

It is no wonder some women prefer the company of men, after reading the responses on this thread.

I've been on mostly male forums. Say what you will about this place, I've never been threatened with rape or death, I've never seen any discussion that spoke about men the way some of those guys discussed women, never seen someone sharing a daily pornographic "pic of the day" or Photoshopping a man's head into a pornographic image. It wasn't all like that, of course, but the worst of them far outweighs the worst I've ever seen in a female environment.

But misogyny prevails. There's always a way to make it cool.

What I do think often happens with women that perhaps isn't so much of an issue with men is that we are socialised to be nice and reasonable and doubt ourselves and put ourselves last in a way men aren't...and ironically, this can indeed lead to friendship frictions. How many threads do we get every day from women about "friends" that they clearly can't stand but feel somehow obliged to maintain a "friendship" with because they think it wouldn't be nice not to?

Also, it's very often (usually?) women who maintain community life, which is important. But it does mean that in doing this work, they get put into situations of conflict while the men stay away, don't get involved, and are then lauded for not being so petty and bitchy and whatnot.

I’ve never been bullied by boys.

That's nice, @TunnocksOrDeath . I'm glad you had male friends in your life that were nice.

I've never been raped, sexually assaulted, sexually harassed, groped on public transport, upskirted in an office, discriminated against and overlooked because of my sex by women or girls.

Men and boys, on the other hand...

I don't think being "one of the lads " is anything to brag about
It just smacks of desperately wanting to be accepted by the blokes
I think men would never fancy a woman who acts like a bloke..drinking pints and swearing

I think men would never fancy a woman who acts like a bloke..drinking pints and swearing

I don't really care about that, but I do think that any man who enjoys a woman's company on the basis of how nasty she is about other women most certainly holds her in just as much loathing and contempt as he does the rest of us; perhaps even more, since he thinks she's too dim to realise why he's there.

That particular "not like other girls" attitude, which of course is not the same as simply being yourself and happening to have mostly male friends, is no different to cultivating an uber (stereotypical) feminine persona where you pride yourself on men liking you because you're a tradwife who loves baking and homemaking and being submissive, not like those horrible bitter feminists. It's all the same sort of pandering.