Family wedding with obligatory religion. What's an atheist to do?

[Tootoomooch]

A close family member is getting married this year. He is a devout christian. Both I and my partner are atheists (me, stridently; him, more quietly. Both committedly).

The family member has made a point of asking everyone to participate in various religious aspects of the wedding. It appears to be a more involved affair than the standard C of E wedding service. We've been asked - but it feels more like an instruction - to join the singing and to offer individual prayers for the couple (out loud, in front of the assembled masses).

I feel very uncomfortable about this but can't put my finger on exactly why. Logically, given that I don't believe, what is the harm in just playing along? But, conversely, if he knows we don't believe and are doing it to keep the peace, what value can he possibly place on our "prayers"? Also - and maybe this is flouncy - but why is my atheism any less valid than his theism? I wouldn't dream of asking him to not pray, or otherwise minimising his beliefs (at least out loud).

There is no way I will allow the children to participate, and I also feel uncomfortable with them watching us participate in a religious ceremony that they know we don't believe in.

My natural tendency is to both obduracy and confrontation (🤣) so my first instinct is to ignore the request and, if pushed, to say that I don't feel comfortable. This is me moderating my first, instinctive response to tell him to f-off.

However, I wonder if IABU. It's a wedding, his special day etc etc (blah) and I should just suck it up?

So -

AIBU - being a militant atheist can wait for a day. Keep the peace and make up a prayer.

or

AINBU - obliging disbelievers to participate is unreasonable and I can just keep quiet (to the fullest extent possible)

How many guests are the going to have? A church service with even say, 50 individual prayers, plus the normal readings, sermon, hymns and prayers, is going to take some time. Do you think he has even thought this through?

"65 Romantic & Funny Wedding Poems - hitched.co.uk" https://www.hitched.co.uk/wedding-planning/ceremony-and-reception/wedding-poems/

I'd be coming up with a poem

My kids and I are Jewish/agnostic and my husband is very much an atheist - as are his parents. We have my daughter's Bat Mitzvah later this year and the majority of attendees will be our non-Jewish friends (we are members of a teeny tiny congregation). My husband absolutely will not be participating - he's there to support our daughter (and me) but he's not going up in front of anyone and pretending something that means nothing. And I wouldn't expect anyone there to participate in anything really - they're there as an audience and as support. I would actually be super uncomfortable watching people lie right in front of me anyway.

I think it's great that you're willing to be honest - I'd just say you are so happy for them and so happy to come and support them, but you wouldn't want to be disingenuous and dilute what is so important to them. And offer to read something secular and pretty.

Also you can bet they won't have Morning Has Broken and All Things Bright and Beautiful where at least some guests may have a hope of carrying a hymn tune in a bucket.

Exactly. Which is why I said in my first reply that she spoiling for a fight.

She wants the fight. She wants the opportunity to tell them what she thinks of their religion and beliefs. Her first reaction was fuck off, not how can we find a compromise.

Somehow I don't think they are as close as she makes them out to be. She is rather tell him to fuck off instead of talk to him about it

Those are not the actions of somebody who is close to you.

The OP isn't asking the B&G to deny their god. It's not the same.

Careful wording is the solution. May your god bless your marriage. Good for your children to see that you can join in enough to be polite and respectful, they will make their own minds up about belief as they get older so doesn’t hurt for them to see different religions.

The process of conversion to ANY religion that I'm aware of, does not consist of singing a hymn (I bet you sing along to plenty of tunes that could constitute "hymns", lots of songs in kids movies are hymns to nature or whatever), and saying a prayer, which is just a wish or a greeting.

There's no declaration of religious affiliation in doing either of those things.

It's just a declaration of love and respect for the COUPLES beliefs and union

You're not signed up
You're not affiliated

You would just be celebrating WITH the couple (through hymns, which is just another name for a celebratory song) and wishing them well (also called prayer)

If I asked you to sing along to mama Mia for me to celebrate my big event, would you say can't and shan't as I don't worship ABBA and I am not greek!

It doesn't sound very atheist TBH to be have such a fear of a song and a statement of well wishing. What power do you think they have?

Singing a hymn doesn't constitute a sacrament even if you DO believe in religion.

Will you be refusing to raise a glass at the meal also? Incase that accidentally signifies your agreement to form a throuple with the couple?

This.

Believe me, no one wants to sit through a load of badly read - because they usually are - prayers anywhere, least of all at a wedding. So if you can swallow your own righteousness for a few seconds then one line of hoping they have a happy life won't hurt you.

Otherwise, decline if your principles are so strong. Father Christmas doesn't exist but most of us knowingly go along with it for a while.

I have attended weddings as an atheist and I have no problem singing the hymns, listening to readings etc as I respect other peoples religions etc.

However, I would respectfully decline the personal prayer bit and just tell them that you cant provide one, as you are not religious and it would not hold any meaning.

If they dont accept this, you can always decline the invitation.

I would offer a poem instead and choose one where the theme of the poem is well wishes/ love/ eternity etc. When called upon, I would say ‘rather than a prayer, I’d like to offer this poem’ and then just crack on. You could choose to join in the hymns or remain silent without it detracting from his day. I’m an atheist too but I think good grace is important when you’ve been invited to join a meaningful celebration.

I think you're being unreasonable from the point of view that a) you feel obliged to do anything as this is a fundamental misunderstanding of Christianity - no one would ask anyone, believer or unbeliever, to do anything that isn't sincere or voluntary - it goes against all that Jesus Christ taught b) going somewhere that makes you uncomfortable

Aren't they having something you could go to afterwards so you don't feel uncomfortable being part of something you don't agree with? I'm sure they would understand. Otherwise, just watch and be respectful to their beliefs, as a valued member who has been invited. I'm sure your atheism isn't a shock to them and they invited you anyway, right?

Are you sure they want everyone to say a prayer? That could take a very long time. Maybe clarify with them what they’re expecting?

in terms of singing along, I think it’s polite to do so at someone else’s wedding, just as you would want people to participate in your own ceremony/celebration etc

"Shakespeare Sonnet 116 | Full Text and Modern Translation of Sonnet 116" https://www.stagemilk.com/sonnet-116/

Can't go wrong with this sonnet

I once went to a wedding in N. Wales, Welsh bride, English groom, DH friends with the groom. Half the hymns were in Welsh. I was about the only one on the English "side" having a go at the hymns - I knew the tunes anyway, think I murdered the Welsh tongue with my pronunciation, but I like a good sing.

My Dsis refused to be a god mother to my DD1 because she couldn’t agree to what she was going to be asked to do. No one else took it that literally.

Bravo to that sister. I did the same when the first grandchild was being baptised, my mother was furious! 'No-one else took it that literally', surely you mean no-one else was honest and sincere about their beliefs.

You could play with this:

Dear Lord, I ask that the members of the congregation who believe in you pray for the happy couple to have a long and happy life together.

I'd just decline the invitation. If your family member is that close they will understand and respect your decision.

A few years ago, my DH and I were invited to a nephew's wedding. My DH is an atheist who will only participate in close family religious services. He was amused when we turned up at the church and I'd completely misread the time of the service, so we had missed the church bit. We then had to gallop across to the reception because I was sure we'd have to creep in; we didn't because, although 2 hours late for the start, not all the guests had arrived at the reception.
My DH really enjoyed that wedding reception because he hadn't had to sit through a service which he'd have hated. We did apologise to the bride, groom and everyone else of importance, but no one held it against us!
It's easier to get away with apologising after the event so do whatever your conscience will allow.

This is actually really good general advice for weddings from a PP.

”But do not make this about you.. It’s not your day. If you feel that strongly about it (prayers, kids, exes, accidentally shagged the MIL, etc.) don’t attend. But don’t act like a dick when you’re there.’

You can hum the tune, say your favourite poem to yourself, maybe move your mouth a bit, make vague non committal noises without actually saying the prayers, stand up and sit down when everyone else is, blend in and nobody will notice. Try and sit near the back so nobody's watching....

Dave Allen's 'May your God go with you'
works in most cases :)

My Dsis refused to be a god mother to my DD1 because she couldn’t agree to what she was going to be asked to do

I am baptised C of E and we got married in a church (though to be fair there were very few other options at the time) and I took no objection to the words of the service or vows. But when I looked at the words of the baptism service for DDs I thought I can't properly say that we're going to bring them up as Christians as our intention was that they make their own minds up. Nor did we have any friends who we thought we religious enough to make the affirmations. So we didn't bother.

In your shoes, I would go and just not participate in the open prayer. You could tell the couple beforehand maybe that you don’t feel comfortable doing so.

I’m a church goer and I would NOT feel comfortable participating in open prayers. It’s not a Methodist thing! It’s a very private moment for me. For someone that has no faith, even worse I imagine. With the singing join in if you feel comfortable and you know the hymn or tune - or don’t if you don’t. The latter you can sing the hymns or songs if you like them but you don’t have to believe them. A lot are written in prayer form.

My Dsis refused to be a god mother to my DD1 because she couldn’t agree to what she was going to be asked to do. No one else took it that literally.

Surely it's meant to be taken literally? Being a godmother isn't about standing up and making a load of empty promises. If your sister didn't want to lie about something so important, good for her.