Family wedding with obligatory religion. What's an atheist to do?

[Tootoomooch]

A close family member is getting married this year. He is a devout christian. Both I and my partner are atheists (me, stridently; him, more quietly. Both committedly).

The family member has made a point of asking everyone to participate in various religious aspects of the wedding. It appears to be a more involved affair than the standard C of E wedding service. We've been asked - but it feels more like an instruction - to join the singing and to offer individual prayers for the couple (out loud, in front of the assembled masses).

I feel very uncomfortable about this but can't put my finger on exactly why. Logically, given that I don't believe, what is the harm in just playing along? But, conversely, if he knows we don't believe and are doing it to keep the peace, what value can he possibly place on our "prayers"? Also - and maybe this is flouncy - but why is my atheism any less valid than his theism? I wouldn't dream of asking him to not pray, or otherwise minimising his beliefs (at least out loud).

There is no way I will allow the children to participate, and I also feel uncomfortable with them watching us participate in a religious ceremony that they know we don't believe in.

My natural tendency is to both obduracy and confrontation (🤣) so my first instinct is to ignore the request and, if pushed, to say that I don't feel comfortable. This is me moderating my first, instinctive response to tell him to f-off.

However, I wonder if IABU. It's a wedding, his special day etc etc (blah) and I should just suck it up?

So -

AIBU - being a militant atheist can wait for a day. Keep the peace and make up a prayer.

or

AINBU - obliging disbelievers to participate is unreasonable and I can just keep quiet (to the fullest extent possible)

Speaking as an obdurate and argumentative atheist, my feeling is that none of it means anything so it really doesn't matter a jot what they ask me to say or do.

To make an absurd analogy, if they thought that reciting Jabberwocky with my hand over my eyes would bring them luck and happiness, I'd do that, on that day, because it mattered to them.

A week later, if it came up, I'd tell them that that's why I did it.

It's utterly ridiculous to expect this of attendees.

How long is the wedding going to be?!! It sounds awful!

It would be fake and pointless to go along with it. As you said, your words will be meaningless as you won't believe them.

He is perfectly entitled to his beliefs but he's not entitled to forced participation.

Don’t have kids, never gone to a nativity, don’t go carolling. Not a hypocrite.

Head over to the christmas board... plenty of atheists, going crazy about it there.

Not saying a prayer doesn't affect anybody else. I believe Christmas was originally a pagan festival, but it's mainly just a commercial event nowadays. It's nice to see friends and family though and get some time off work.

Yes, atheists. Famously one homogenous mass, a hive-mind, with not one single differentiating feature between them,

I hate bananas. If friends wanted to get married at a Go Ape with a full menu of banana-flavoured food, I would happily go and swing through the trees, but I would take a packed lunch. I wouldn’t eat bananas on the basis that it made them happy. And surely true friends don’t want you to be unhappy in order for them to be happy, true friends respect your beliefs, principles and practices.

You’ve reminded me that I once read ‘The Owl and the Pussycat’ at a very good friend’s wedding.

I'd go if it was a Monkey Balls wedding.

You do not that all atheists are not the same person? I bet there are some people from South East England commenting on there too… I’m not from South East England. We are all different, not a member of the atheist Borg.

Anyway, I’m a humanist as I mentioned earlier in the thread.

😆 😆 😆

I am a non believer, my young adult son is a practicing Christian who was baptised last year.
I went to the baptism for him, during the service I stood up and sat down as required, didn't sing or pray. When it came to the actual baptism I went forward with him in my capacity as official holder of the towel. I found his testimony quite moving.
I went for him and did as much as I was comfortable with. Wouldn't have missed it for the world

My children aren't at school yet so actually, no.

I don't think it's hypocritical because there is a difference between taking part in a religious ceremony and educating children about a very popular religion.

I've never sang a religious hymn with them, no. I'd watch them sing at school but I don't see why I would need to sing along.

Can just picture it. Everyone in hired fancy dress gorilla/monkey costumes trying to fire into the complimentary drinks... while stuck inside a zorbing ball.

The OP's difficulties seem to be all of her own making. What is so hard about saying 'Hi [relative], I can't read a prayer I'm afraid, as that would be hypocritical of me as a non-believer. Let me know if there is any secular reading I could contribute; otherwise I will just silently offer you my very best wishes.'

I can't think of any Christian that I know who would find that remotely difficult to hear.

And as for the singing, joining in with hymns is not a profession of belief. It is about supporting a celebration. Any event that involves a sing-along is a bit ragged and sad if the participants are tentative about joining in. Just add your voice in the same spirit that you would get on the dance floor if a host asked you to help nudge others into dancing.

These things are such a no-brainer that I am tempted to think that the OP is one of those people whose atheism has for some reason become a crucial part of her identity, something that has to be explicitly expressed and reflected on, perhaps as a way of experiencing a sense of intellectual purity.

How can not believing in something take on so much importance that you are, in the OP's own words, 'militant' and 'strident' about it? I could understand it if the OP had been bullied or hassled into religious observance as a child, and was reacting against that as part of an overly-prolonged escape from parental influence, but I think she has said she was raised an atheist.

And this bit is particularly unreasonable: Why is my atheism any less valid than his theism? I wouldn't dream of asking him to not pray, or otherwise minimising his beliefs.

Because it is his wedding not yours! Wedding couples routinely make all sorts of rather self-absorbed requests on their own special day. I had to wear a flouncy peach dress at my sister's wedding ffs. We fit in to the extent that we can, and we politely explain if/when we can't fit in. And then the wedding couple (unless they are bridezillas/groomzillas) say "Yes, ok, fine, lets do it a bit differently."

Years ago, I used to be rather strident in my atheism. Looking back on that now, I just see it as a lack of wisdom. I will never believe in god. But I have a very much less facile view of other people's faith than I did.

If you are not a wedding planner, you have missed your calling!

Fair enough.

I'd probably eat the bananas.

...I'd draw the line at honey though.

See I’m fine with honey… but no bananas and no coffee or anything in the extended coffee family… I’m looking at you Tiramisu!

After reading all of this, I'm glad my husband and I eloped. Goodness me.

That what I would do if I ever got married again and I would get @XDownwiththissortofthingX to plan my elopement.

Just suck it up and go ffs. It isn't about you.

I'm a Christian and no way would I ask anyone who didn't have faith to say prayers.
I'd ask if they want you to act in a way that is incompatible with their proclaimed faith. Remind them that the Bible says Jesus proclaimed he was the way, the truth and the life and called out religious hypocrites. Ask why they are trying to force you to be a hypocrite in church and if they really believe Jesus would approve of such an unloving act. Their actions don't align with the bible teachings they profess to be following and if they asked their vicar/minister about it I would hope they would let them know it wasn't right.

Silly.

Attendance and participation is voluntary.

Most of us seem to recognise this, thankfully.

The OP's difficulties seem to be all of her own making. What is so hard about saying 'Hi [relative], I can't read a prayer I'm afraid, as that would be hypocritical of me as a non-believer. Let me know if there is any secular reading I could contribute; otherwise I will just silently offer you my very best wishes.'

Seems to me that OP is very much of this mind herself, but just wanted to seek reassurance it is perfectly ok to feel like this and voice it along these lines.

How can not believing in something take on so much importance that you are, in the OP's own words, 'militant' and 'strident' about it? I could understand it if the OP had been bullied or hassled into religious observance, and was reacting against that as part of an overly-prolonged escape from parental influence, but I think she has said she was raised an atheist

I was also raised an atheist, both parents atheist, as far as I'm aware none of my grandparents were in any way religious. Despite this, I was still frequently, repeatedly "bullied or hassled into religious observance", by my school for the most part. I suspect this is a generational thing because I would not expect it is tolerated now, but whenever as a child or adolescent I attempted to object to compelled participation and requested to opt out, I was invariably ignored or told to sit down, shut up, and play along, so it isn't always about parental influence. Depending on age, some of us were still subjected to it irrespective of the fact that we came from an entirely atheistic background, so yes, it is a part of why I'm "strident" about standing up for myself when it comes to religion expecting me to oblige it.

FWIW, I don't accept the terms "militant atheist" or even more ridiculous "devout atheist". It's a simple matter of yes/no, exist/does not exist. You can't "unbelieve harder", and if something doesn't exist, it doesn't exist less or more dependent upon how strident you are in your non-belief.

No the OP doesn't have to do anything

But it's weird to want to go to a celebration and not join in.

Same as going to a birthday party and sitting with your arms folded during Happy Birthday

It isn't the same thing at all. Birthday parties aren't religious ceremonies and happy birthday is a group song where you'd likely not even notice if someone didn't sing or just mumbled a few words.

You can also celebrate a wedding without reading out a prayer.