to be feeling so upset over this?

[SunnyStrawberries]

Hi everyone, I just need to get something off my chest and maybe hear some outside perspectives because I’m really struggling with how I'm feeling at the moment.
For context, over the years we’ve been on a few family holidays that included myself, my husband and our kids, my in-laws (his parents), and my husband’s sister and her family. While we’ve generally had good times but it's not always been 'perfect'. My husband and his sister parent very differently, and that’s caused a few minor issues in the past. Things like me saying yes to our kids having an ice cream and her saying no to hers – which then leads to meltdowns and somehow becomes our fault. Nothing huge, just little clashes now and then.
However, the last holiday we went on together a few years ago ended badly. After a minor issue about splashing in the pool, my sister-in-law completely lost it with my husband in front of everyone – shouting that he’s a rubbish parent, that I’m lazy, and even saying her kids are scared of him. It was really awful. She accused him of “puffing out his chest trying to be the big man” which couldn’t have been further from the truth. He stood silently and in shock, didn’t react, and just walked away and was actually gutted about what she said and they way she said it in front of everyone. It felt to me like it came from years of built-up resentment she hadn’t addressed. I still get quite emotional thinking about it.
After that, both my husband and his sister (separately) told their parents that they wouldn’t be doing any more big family holidays – the tension was too much. We cancelled the holiday we had already booked for the following year. We didn’t speak at all for months, but eventually we got to a place where we could be civil again. Things are ok now but nothing like before.
Now on to my problem... my sister-in-law recently booked a family holiday and invited my in-laws who agreed to going with them. They’ve all gone away together – and we weren’t even considered. Not even a message or conversation to see how we felt about it. My MIL only told us after it was already booked. I know we said we wouldn’t do joint holidays again, and truthfully we probably would’ve said no anyway. But to not even be included in the discussion – especially after working to be civil again – feels like a slap in the face. I wouldn't even consider asking my in laws to come on a holiday with us because I wouldn't want to put them in an awkward situation and I wouldn't want to put my nieces and nephews in a position where they would feel excluded.
I’m heartbroken for my kids, who now see their grandparents and cousins on a holiday without them. It feels like such a massive step backwards for our family, like we’re being pushed out. I just can’t shake the feeling of being excluded and like we don’t matter. I've cried multiple times since they went last week.
Am I being unreasonable to be so upset about it or do I just need to get a grip?

He dealt with it as quickly as possible. She had already splashed again before he could say anything

I understand that now. Perhaps we are the problem here. I will definitely be doing some reflecting off the back of the replies that I’ve received

I agree with this.

I’m not talking about the splashing. I’m talking about the comment I quoted. You think your kids are ‘cheeky and funny’ (although others think they’re rude), you can’t really remember any examples though, you’re ‘laidback’, one of your kids has a ‘tendency to keep things going’ (but you don’t acknowledge that this is extremely poor behaviour), and so on.

Why do you think your SIL ought to have spoken to you, as opposed to you just making sure your kids weren’t annoying everyone? You were there and could see what was happening, right? You know how your kids behave and could see that nobody else was enjoying their alleged wit as much as you.

I would thank my lucky stars I wasn't invited on this holiday. His sister sounds unhinged.

SIL sounds hard work. I'd rather go on holiday with you, your cheeky kids and a healthy attitude towards the dishes 😂

I said I assume that SIL would see my DC as rude not funny/cheeky. No one else has ever said they were rude. I also do acknowledge poor behaviour and intervene when needed (removing from the pool for splashing as an example)I think we are at complete opposite ends of the parenting spectrum which makes things difficult. When I said that I wish we could have spoken I meant instead of it getting to the point where SIL lost it with my DH which we haven’t come back from.

Honestly I’m sorry I don’t mean to be sticking the boot in. It’s clear you are reflecting on things. But is it the case that you even subconsciously know there’s been some fault on both sides?

A lot of people do struggle with cheeky but funny. Because it’s just cheeky to them.

I would have gone absolutely postal about the splashing. She would have been told firmly stop that at once the minute it became clear her cousin was upset. And if she had done it again I would have had her straight out of the pool and by the side. Not spending a long time explaining you’ll have to be out longer he/it’s not worth it. Because that’s putting the blame on the cousin. I’d have simply said out. Now. Sit here. And you’re not getting back in until I tell you.

I really do know how hard it is to be on holiday with another family. I’ve done it twice when I was married and laid it down hard to my then husband that I would never be doing it again.

there was just too much of a difference between us, and whilst that didn’t matter for an afternoon visit, being stuck together for a couple of weeks in the same place made it a nightmare.

But the splashing sounds like it was the straw that broke the camels back. Can you see that?

Grow up. Just because you lot can’t get on, you think your in laws shouldn’t be going on holiday with their kids and grandkids? They can holiday with you. No one is stopping you. They can holiday with their daughter. What are you crying about?

There has definitely been some fault on both sides. I’m not a natural disciplinarian whereas my SIL
is. I will definitely be looking at ways I can be better. I hadn’t really considered the fact that it may be ‘us’ until today

I’m not crying about the holiday. I’ve realised now that the holiday isn’t the thing I’m upset about

OP you've been very gracious, in this thread, most unusual for AIBU.

Focus on your family and on your relationship with in laws. You and Sil's family are simply incompatible and holidaying together with small children for years like that sounds like my idea of hell 😬

Next time invite your PIL to a nice long weekend in a cottage and maybe next year you go with them or you find out that holidaying solo as a family can be bliss.

Your SIL sounds a tiny bit stuck up and you sound a bit laissez faire not a great combination.

Just leave it all be, there is no forcing these things.

If you wanted to patch things up, meet up just with you SIL for a chat but stay away from this topic as nothing good will come of it.

I can yes

I think you should read my comment again as you have not engaged with what it says.

Thank you. I will definitely take this advice

Your SIL and her husband don’t like you and your family very much. Or, at the very least, don’t want to go on holiday with you. That’s all. It’s not an ideal situation, but it’s also not a massive deal. Why this would have you in tears multiple times is genuinely baffling to me.

@SunnyStrawberries I give you a lot of credit for taking the feedback and reflecting. It's been a long time thinking about this so reframing it must be really hard.

I'd say that I'm someone who likes a lot of order. There are a lot of rules in my house and I have a lot of feelings about dishes and chaos. Plenty of positive feelings about ice cream however ;-)

My husband and I are immigrants, so when we see our siblings or parents it's always for extended periods of time for 24 hours at a time. That makes every.single.niggle into a massive thing. So I do the dishes and more dishes appear and I do them again and then more dishes appear and I realise my brother hasn't done the dishes once today and I lose my mind over nothing. So everything gets amplified when you are all stuck in the same space for too long basically.

So I'm guessing your kids were annoying her, the clash in parenting styles was annoying her, the splashing tipped her over the edge and she lost her mind for a bit. And it's annoying because it's not really her fault 'or' your fault... it's just a bad mix and for too long at once. I have learned that we cannot spend the entire time with our extended family - we need lots of breaks and day trips and movie nights and such. Otherwise we all start to drive each other crazy.

Thank you for your kind comment @PurpleThistle7and thank you for sharing your experience. It has helped me see how my SIL may have been feeling

This is what I’m trying to say.

Having one who carries it on - and I’ve had one of those - you need to come down hard on that. That’s bullying. And it’s nasty.

how many other people know you well enough to actually tell you your kids are rude? That’s not something I’d say to anyone except a sibling.

I think you’re upset because you’ve realised that the closeness you thought you had was an illusion. And that really you’re very different.

maybe you’ll be close again. But for now, build the bridges slowly - start to parent effectively in front of BIL and SIL when they see you and your kids.

I really do just think you’re too different for a protected period of time together at close quarters.

I think you’re failing to consider the possibility that your DPILs have wisely concluded that they aren’t up for any more everyone together holidays.

Based on all of your updates, it is clear that your parenting styles are incompatible, and better suited to day trips. Having your DNs in your life is important to you, so sounds good to keep creating opportunities for cousins to spend time together, and strengthen their bond. For what it’s worth, I always find it massively discourteous when parents in group outings do not check with the other parents before plying their own DCs with ice cream, sweets, junk food, or any other kind of promise that the other parents will then have to all comply with to keep the peace with their own DCs. Takes hardly any effort to check with other parents first. Best of luck working through this, and get in quick with an invite for your own holiday with your in-laws!

Perhaps you’re right @ForZanyAquaViewerand SIL doesn’t really like us. As I’ve said a few times I’ve realised now that the holiday isn’t what I am upset about- it’s the fallout. I thought we were close but perhaps not as close as I thought. I have read the replies here and will be reflecting and trying to be a better person/family for people to be around.

The close everyone together in one big group family dynamic you prefer is one others can find very suffocating and frankly unpleasant (especially for a holiday, something which is supposed to be enjoyable and relaxing), especially when you’re very different people with very different styles of parenting and living. You don’t mesh well with your SIL, and made the wise choice to no longer do big family holidays.

That doesn’t mean your SIL’s family can’t go away with her parents, or that you can’t do the same. It really isn’t something either of you would be obliged to notify the other of in advance, either. That you would is your preference, and not something your SIL is bound by. She’s done nothing wrong here.

So you’ll never go on holiday with your pil again? You said you’d never go on holiday with your sil again, one imagines tensions would again surface and your sil has taken you at your word. Don’t talk about it in front of your dc, you’re just picking at a scab.