To throw my 16 yr old son out after he squared up to me

[summerviews]

I have been busy all weekend sanding the staircase. My son brought two big bags of washing down and asked if they could be done. I said of course.
An hour or so had passed and I thought I'd ask him to put a wash on. He did this, no bother.
A couple of hours later I asked him to pop his washing into the dryer. Which he did.
Roll on this evening my eldest came home and wanted to get a wash on ready for work tomorrow. He put it on a quick wash. Once it's done, he goes to the dryer and realises stuff is in there and it's still wet! My 16 yr old son says he doesn't know why, and wants to take it out regardless. I explain that he should keep it in the dryer and let it dry properly or the clothes will stink if left damp or wet. He tells me I'm to blame as the dryer is my responsibility. I let this narky comment slide and calmly tell him to leave the washing in and turn it back on.
I know what's happened, he's put his washing in there earlier and not started it at the beginning of the cycle, so it's only done a half cycle, if that. But I say nothing (I pick my battles).
Literally less than five mins later 16 yr old walks to dryer and begins to pull everything out to check if it's dry yet. 🤦🏼‍♀️ I say "son, do you actually want to die?! In a playful, yet exasperated tone. "Put the washing back in!" I get up and begin to make my way over there to put everything back in, as he's just standing there with an angry look. As I'm walking, he says, "SAY THAT AGAIN!!". I tell him not to talk to me like that, that I'm trying to help him. He is still stood stock still, fists clenched and butts me with his chest (like a 'come on then!' kind of thing) he's done that to me once before a very long time ago and he was distraught with himself for being so horrible to me. I'm shocked at his reactions to say the least as it was never that deep as I now realise he's being aggressive and this is ridiculous behaviour. I tell him to stop and to have some respect, I remind him I'm his mother and to never do that to me again because I won't tolerate it! He then loudly shouts that I'm a "BITCH!" in my face. So I quickly walk away from him. I'm literally gasping for words, as I'm so upset and shocked. I shout to him to pack a bag and get out, that I will not stand for violent abusive behaviour from a child of mine.
I text his dad to come and get him (were not together). I say to him, don't ask my why ATM, son will explain.
He goes upstairs packs some stuff and leaves, shouting a cheery "bye everyone!" as he goes. Once son has left, I text dad asking him to talk to son about domestic abuse and that I don't tolerate it, and that I am ashamed of son's actions.
An hour or so later my phone is flooded with voice notes and messages from his dad accusing me of saying "do you want to die??" And that son was right to react the way he did and me saying it was abusive and violent is just the sort of thing I would typically do.
Ex was extremely abusive when we were together. That's the reason I left him.
Since then he has been a great father. No signs of abuse with new partner and soin look up to him.
For the rest of the evening I'm told I'm cancerous and is why no one wants to be with me and I'm a pathetic excuse of a mother.
I remind him of the abuse he has done when together and that I should not have expected anything in the way of advice to son from such an abuser. He continues to flood my phone with how I deserved what I got when we were together and that son is better off with him as I'm a pathetic excuse.
I blocked him. I can't take anymore of his abuse. I have been sobbing all evening.
I know my son will be upset with his actions today.
I was hasty in calling his dad, I know that now. At the time I was frightened and wanted to show my son I wouldn't tolerate such abuse.
I'm still sobbing. I don't want my son turning out like his father. I shouldn't have sent him to him. I've sent him into the lions den.

Keep those texts from your ex, he clearly is still abusive.

Give this space.
Let your son come to you.
Do not accept aggression under any circumstances.
He needs to learn to regulate himself.
You were clearly joking.

I'm sorr you are so upset.

No, but she did the right thing by asking him to leave. Just unfortunate that the only ‘safe’ adult is his dad. But the priority for OP’s safety was to get him to leave.

Good point made above - that he viewed what she said as an INSULT, not a threat. This wasn't "my mum is going to kill me, must react in self-defence" - it was ego/"disrespect" "hard-man" stuff.

Exactly. He feels that his mother, as a woman, is beneath him, and he's free to bully, insult, threaten and assault her.

People saying so, what, just give up on him - I'm not sure what other choice the OP has while he presents a threat to her?

Yes, the clothes are absolutely the primary issue here. Jesus Christ.

Yes that was a weird thing to say 😲

I think you did the right thing op. I make jokey comments to my son like that in banter but if he ever laid a finger on me or squared up, I’d do exactly the same as you.

Let him stew in his own juices for a while then when things have calmed down go somewhere neutral for a coffee and have a chat. Clear the air. And that is essential. Calmly tell him you love him but you will not tolerate abuse.

Now I would never have expected this kind of language from someone who haunts Internet forums justifying domestic abuse. Truly shocking.

And you are missing the fact that he actually was trying to do his own laundry - hardly the behaviour of an arch misogynist who refuses to do 'women's work'. You are also missing the fact that OP says he was ashamed of his previous behaviour.

This kid clearly has issues as a result of his upbringing and what he has witnessed. But there are clear signs of a decent underlying kid who, with appropriate direction and support, can be a decent adult man.

Its very notable that all those wanting to condemn this boy and saying 'this is how abusers are formed when they are excused' have nothing constructive to offer about what should be done instead - what is the constructive path that should be taken to stop him being an abuser? Do you honestly think condemning him and throwing him out of his home is it?

Its also very notable that those who have experienced living in aggressive households or have experience of working with trouble teens have a trauma informed approach and have understanding of what is behind this outburst, and constructive advice about how to work him to turn him into a self -regulating function adult.

I'm going with those who are following trauma informed approaches rather than those based on ideology with nothing helpful to offer.

The priority here was OP getting away from her son, so it’s unfortunate that the only ‘safe’ adult she could send him to was his dad. This would only be an option if they still had contact, so clearly her sons do spend time with him. You’re criticising another poster for not being ‘constructive’ while piling the blame onto OP in the post they replied to. That’s not very constructive either, and not helpful at all to OP.

It's a pity that his father was aggressive to you but I think I might have a word with the police for advice on domestic violence explaining about your experience with your ex and your son's response. One of my colleagues had a good relationship with her ex until he met soneone else and stopped seeing the children and she was fortunate that her brother's partner is available to help her, as her ex isn't allowed to go to her house. Neighbours called the police when tgey had a domestic and both ended up spending a night in custody with her brother taking the children overnight. Its difficult I understand and I hope the police advice can help so that your son understands what is acceptable.

Ok OP, I'm going to hazard a guess that your 16 yo doesn't know how to use the dryer. I'd figure that he felt ashamed/embarrassed that those wet clothes were still in there. When you highlighted it, undoubtedly it will have been in the presence of his older brother, making him look stupid (in his eyes). And then when you tried to intervene and fix it, further made him feel useless.

You've said that he's behaved like that before but he's been mortified by his own behaviour. The other parent when splits like this have happened, and there's been a situation, are always bad, and of course the pure truth is almost never said - it's always from our own perspective. From both sides. I'm not excusing anyone, nor accusing you of anything, as long as you were sincere.

I grew up in an emotionally abusive/neglectful family. I'm not saying yours is, however your ex must have had/has influence on your children. Sarcasm to me was part of the inconsistent (and downright insane) behaviour they exhibited. I struggle to understand when it is used now, not because I'm stupid, but that was my repeated experience - sarcasm one day, real threats the next, and a lot of crap between - randomly inconsistent behaviour. And so sarcasm was always treated by me as a threat. Because it was safer to do so than treating everything as a joke. I was also barred from using the washer & dryer because they claimed I would break them (despite never breaking anything), as well as not being allowed to use the cooker, take a bath unless at a specific time with hardly any water in... anyway you don't need my life story. It wasn't nice put it that way, but sarcasm was used by the abuser. And if I didn't "get" it then I was stupid for not understanding. But then apparently I was stupid for many things, including things they'd withheld explaining to me.

I'd figure a one to one talk is needed, with you explaining to him what you meant. Show him how to operate the dryer (in practice - when he has wet clothes, as well as when empty). And if he doesn't apologise immediately I'd say reinforce - tell him how his behaviour isn't acceptable, that in his future he can't behave like that but you also need an apology to continue.

The comment about the drier being OP’s responsibility is deeply misogynistic and informs his subsequent actions as reported by OP. The whole family are clearly traumatised by the ex’s actions, including OP. That does not excuse what the boy did, and the misogynistic pile on from those holding OP responsible is doing nothing to help either.

You very definitely ARE justifying it.

Having had daughters in the school system here, what depresses me is that this boy will probably be treating the girls at school with vocal contempt, sexual slurs and possibly outright intimidation and violence, and the schools will be pandering to that behaviour just as much as several posters on this thread believe OP should be doing.

I think you know deep down the reason this has played out this way.

His dad was abusive. He will have had that role-modelled to him growing up and you have absolutely no idea what gets said about you outside of the home by his second family. I would expect there is a rhetoric of you being the problem and your ex painting himself as a victim - no doubt your son was then able to paint you as the villain of this particular scenario and the ex will have revelled in he opportunity to rewrite history once again to say you did similar to him - hence what happened in the past between you both.

Personally I’d be inviting the son to go and live with his dad full time. I’m going to guess that might have a negative financial impact on you but I would do it regardless. My eldest does square up to me sometimes but he is twelve and it’s never done with malice. Plus he has had a very positive and respectful relationship modelled to him his whole life so it doesn’t bother me. The kids know that no one calls me curse names though and the day one of them tries that we will have a HUGE problem.

That’s a personal attack and against the rules of the forum. You might want to report your own post.

I expect them to me managing and responsible for their behaviours as soon as they are able with supportive guidance from their parents, which allows them to make mistakes and come back from them and learn how to be better whether that is age 2 or 20!

It was an odd joke. However, there is no excuse for threats of physical violence. I'd expect a reaction more like, why'd you say that etc

It sounds like your ex has given him the impression even subconsciously that this is reasonable. It also sounds like anger management issues like hes on edge and doesn't know how to manage emotions.

I think Id be saying come back when you can apologise but since its happened twice id still be setting firm boundaries and saying you'd need to show me youre safe and can be trusted. He needs some anger management support before he hits you or another woman. However, Im not sure how much this is within your control if hes sided with his dad.

I agree to some extent but by 16 he should know mistakes are yelling, swearing, storming off or even throwing. physical violence particularly towards a women is never ok. Young children learn this if everyone in their lives including dads reinforce that message.

He’s literally blown up the OPs phone saying the son was reasonable. No ‘impression’ about it. He had the opportunity to pick up his son and then meet with the mother to find out what was going on but instead he decided to validate the son’s actions by accusing his mother of wrong doing. There’s really not much you can do to quickly sort that mess out. I fully expect the son will get into a serious relationship and do exactly the same to the girlfriend/wife. Generational legacy going round and round and round often supported by the courts who will mandate abusive parents to still have access to their kids.

@Bologneselove

FFS, whatever she said doesn’t justify violence against her!!

Yes. She's spent years being abused by the father and now her son is abusing her. The damage is done. She needs to protect herself.

Okay, okay, so we are going to ignore his very clearly not misogynistic actual behaviour of doing his own laundry, and instead fixate on one sentence instead to make the case that he thinks laundry is women's work. I'm no impressed by such imbalanced evidence gathering.

And we are also going to forget this is a child / parent situation, where reflecting on how one interacts with one' s children is a normal, healthy part of parenting to improve outcomes, and instead treat this like a equal adult-adult relationship so that we completely say the parent has nothing to learn but the child has.

Nah, not buying it.

This is a child how has experienced living in an abusive household and is still in contact with an abusive father.

Both the mother and the son need to be aware of the effect of that on both of them, the son clearly needs targeted support and boundaries to counteract the effects of this.

This is not a adult-adult LTB situation. This is a child who is still forming.

@earlymorningwakeup

OP over reacted??? OP?? What about the son literally assaulting his mother - is that not an over reaction in your book??

Anyone that doesn’t have this sort of sense of humour won’t understand and will use it against you, lots of people make jokes like this and I’m going to assume you’re telling the truth that it was light hearted. It’s unfortunate that you said that because now your son can use it against you but don’t let it distract you from the fact that he was physically aggressive - repeatedly and as you were walking away! Ultimately just let your ex keep the little shit. He’s 16, he has a roof over his head. I think it’s a win for you personally, you don’t need it in your life, don’t answer the ex’s texts, let the 16 year old calm down for a week or so and then tell him you’re happy to see him and that you love him as long as he isn’t aggressive with you again. He can be Daddy’s problem now, the mask will slip for both of them soon. My son is a nightmare (19) and he doesn’t have contact with his Dad but let me tell you I would be delighted if he took himself off to his Dads now.