To throw my 16 yr old son out after he squared up to me

[summerviews]

I have been busy all weekend sanding the staircase. My son brought two big bags of washing down and asked if they could be done. I said of course.
An hour or so had passed and I thought I'd ask him to put a wash on. He did this, no bother.
A couple of hours later I asked him to pop his washing into the dryer. Which he did.
Roll on this evening my eldest came home and wanted to get a wash on ready for work tomorrow. He put it on a quick wash. Once it's done, he goes to the dryer and realises stuff is in there and it's still wet! My 16 yr old son says he doesn't know why, and wants to take it out regardless. I explain that he should keep it in the dryer and let it dry properly or the clothes will stink if left damp or wet. He tells me I'm to blame as the dryer is my responsibility. I let this narky comment slide and calmly tell him to leave the washing in and turn it back on.
I know what's happened, he's put his washing in there earlier and not started it at the beginning of the cycle, so it's only done a half cycle, if that. But I say nothing (I pick my battles).
Literally less than five mins later 16 yr old walks to dryer and begins to pull everything out to check if it's dry yet. 🤦🏼‍♀️ I say "son, do you actually want to die?! In a playful, yet exasperated tone. "Put the washing back in!" I get up and begin to make my way over there to put everything back in, as he's just standing there with an angry look. As I'm walking, he says, "SAY THAT AGAIN!!". I tell him not to talk to me like that, that I'm trying to help him. He is still stood stock still, fists clenched and butts me with his chest (like a 'come on then!' kind of thing) he's done that to me once before a very long time ago and he was distraught with himself for being so horrible to me. I'm shocked at his reactions to say the least as it was never that deep as I now realise he's being aggressive and this is ridiculous behaviour. I tell him to stop and to have some respect, I remind him I'm his mother and to never do that to me again because I won't tolerate it! He then loudly shouts that I'm a "BITCH!" in my face. So I quickly walk away from him. I'm literally gasping for words, as I'm so upset and shocked. I shout to him to pack a bag and get out, that I will not stand for violent abusive behaviour from a child of mine.
I text his dad to come and get him (were not together). I say to him, don't ask my why ATM, son will explain.
He goes upstairs packs some stuff and leaves, shouting a cheery "bye everyone!" as he goes. Once son has left, I text dad asking him to talk to son about domestic abuse and that I don't tolerate it, and that I am ashamed of son's actions.
An hour or so later my phone is flooded with voice notes and messages from his dad accusing me of saying "do you want to die??" And that son was right to react the way he did and me saying it was abusive and violent is just the sort of thing I would typically do.
Ex was extremely abusive when we were together. That's the reason I left him.
Since then he has been a great father. No signs of abuse with new partner and soin look up to him.
For the rest of the evening I'm told I'm cancerous and is why no one wants to be with me and I'm a pathetic excuse of a mother.
I remind him of the abuse he has done when together and that I should not have expected anything in the way of advice to son from such an abuser. He continues to flood my phone with how I deserved what I got when we were together and that son is better off with him as I'm a pathetic excuse.
I blocked him. I can't take anymore of his abuse. I have been sobbing all evening.
I know my son will be upset with his actions today.
I was hasty in calling his dad, I know that now. At the time I was frightened and wanted to show my son I wouldn't tolerate such abuse.
I'm still sobbing. I don't want my son turning out like his father. I shouldn't have sent him to him. I've sent him into the lions den.

@ZeroSpoons

oh and I genuinely wasn’t being sarcastic…when you said emotional/verbal abuse I assumed you were referring to OP’s son calling her a bitch. Were you not? What were you referring to?

Aggression and physically threatening behaviour is never justified. It does make me wonder if his father's influence isn't the only contributing factor here. Could he be using steroids? A lot of teens are trying them combined with their gym time, and it can cause this kind of behaviour.

I’m not convinced this thread is genuine. Your son had been acting “menstrual”

Are they trans?

@Zempy don’t go reaching for shit. Likely @summerviews meant he was getting hormonal rage issues but she worded it improperly.

Didn't know I was asked it directly! Though I've said elsewhere, I do feel you're trying to "win" this argument however I will humour you.

Now, I would say anything to do with ex is likely to be problematic, and given he will have access to his children he will influence them. Acrimonious splits especially in abusive households will be a further problem. DS shouldn't have responded that way, however I do see that its likely that he didn't understand the sarcasm, and/or felt embarrassed/ridiculed in the situation in front of his brother. And highly likely he's never been shown how to use the dryer. And so whilst I'm not excusing his behaviour, I'm not saying hers was ok either. He reacted to her I know what it's like then abusive family members try to shame you, especially in public - it's usually about them basking in their power and nothing to do with what you did, what you didn't do, that you did it wrong, that you didn't do it exactly how they did, that you took 5 milliseconds too long - there will always be something you did wrong, always. Think about this - what did he do to cause that situation?

Took me ages to realise my family wasn't normal. They tried as best to make themselves look perfect on the outside. Anyone who didn't kowtow to the family line was to be reprimanded. So being told off for telling the truth. Nobody was supposed to know what they were really like.

Not disbelieving her but OP is going to be biased to herself. Now imagine she was abusive as well - wouldn't she put her position as innocent, whilst making him out to be a lot worse. Narcissists have a tendency of reversing victim and offender - it's known as DARVO. Now I'm not saying she is, but hypothetically. Oh and in my family specific members absolutely loved power, using others to back up their position (triangulation). Narcissism isn't just something some males have.

I don't really think you're interested, at least not in knowing the reality of abusive households/families. And probably more interested in someone either justifying you arguing with them (you want me to support them) or back you up. I do neither. I don't have your position. I don't believe sarcasm is a good way of doing anything.

The quoted poster as well as a few others suggest constructive solutions, not just hatred of the male. Would they be the same if the child was a daughter behaving that way? Is that not favouritism? (a noticeable behaviour in abusive/dysfunctional families) @ZeroSpoons

What a bizarre comment. Yes, I would, to answer your question. But of course, you were not wanting a response. Because you answered the question yourself so that you could attack me, and posters like me, so that you could present yourself as the only reasonable one on the thread.

Utterly bizarre behaviour.

I'm sure everyone, well most, reasonable people, know and understand what OP said was meant to be a joke.

It doesn't change the fact tho that her son in that moment might not have seen the "funny" side of it. Being a witness to domestic abuse makes you react to things differently. I still sometimes react to "jokes" like this very strongly and im an adult woman.

I know in my brain it's a joke but because of the childhood "trauma" of witnessing abuse, jokes like this still sometimes trigger me.

I'm not saying what OPs son did is acceptable but sometimes teenagers struggle to control their emotions. And OP was the adult in that situation. She should have behaved like one.

We can't have a society where we condone bigger stronger people threatening others with physical harm because they're upset with them

Absolutely no-one has said we should condone this. Its just that some people have different ways of understanding and addressing the behaviour. From those arguing that he is an innate little shit who should be thrown out to fend for himself 🙄 to those arguing that keeping communication open so that this episode can be learnt from is a better approach.

Oh god if you're cherry picking then why not I. You said aggression has no place, and so that includes sarcasm. Sarcasm is passive aggression. Or perhaps you believe it's ok to be one without the other?

There are other ways to solve disputes other than aggression. But this is how it plays out - if I talk to people, especially online, they either talk normally, use personal attacks, or they use badly veiled aggression in the form of sarcasm. Whilst personal attacks are just pathetic (and thankfully not used here), the amount of people saying it's ok, and that it's normal. It shouldn't be normal - how it's anger/aggression acceptable? You've said it yourself - often males are physically aggressive, whilst females verbally, which tends to bely physical strength. A person who is physically weaker (unless physically abusive) will not exert physical prowess, instead reverting to whatever they feel powerful in. People who manipulate and use indirect aggression are not strong. They are weak, just like those who use physical aggression because it's nothing to do with sorting out a situation amicably, it's about winning. Winning the argument. I don't care if I "win" - I just want it to be true, and correct. Don't understand the ego cult.

Sarcasm and passive aggression is never justified either. Or maybe you think one kind of aggression is ok, and another isn't. Like the one you may use is justified, whilst anything anyone else uses is wrong?!

Ex has never shown signs of abuse to the kids...He is a pure bonafide narcissist

I am glad to hear things are normally good in your family OP, I got that impression from your post. However, if your ex really is a pure bonafide narcissist and he is still in your son's life, I would not be so sure to dismiss the impact of this on your kids.

There should be a designated topic on MN for people who said something passive-aggressive in a 'jokey' way and then had to deal with the consequences.

The OP made a 'jokey' threat of harm to a YA who was raised with violence and is then surprised the YA responded violently . And she then called the adult that has taught this child that violence is an appropriate reaction to conflict and expected him to deal with it reasonably. You couldn't make this stuff up.

@summerviews Of course your son was out of order. But he is the child here. He has learned what he has lived. His father is a horrible role model, so as unfair as it is, you have to be the responsible adult. Text your son, tell him you are sorry this all blew up in such a horrible way and that you are looking forward to him coming home soon.

Positive update, OP. But please don't let this die down and be swept under the rug. If he tries this shit in the real world (squares up to a female manager at his first job, yells bitch in the face of a female police officer, screams abuse at a woman in public just because she's an easy target for his rage that day) he is going to end up in serious trouble.

For me, I wouldn’t have thrown him out knowing the back story of his abusive dad.

Would you still have thrown him out if he didn’t have his dad? I would have treated the situation as though he didn’t have anywhere to go and found another way of dealing with it tbh. You’ve just given his dad more power.

@ZeroSpoons

sarcasm is not the same as aggression. It just isn’t. You’re trying soooooo hard to excuse male violence, I’m finding myself really embarrassed on your behalf. Such a handmaiden.

How on Earth was I attacking you? I was agreeing with you. That question wasn't to you - I thought it was pretty obvious - maybe it wasn't, but I'm not thinking anyone here is genuine - is this some sort of mind game? You play devil's advocate then switch sides? Am I best to just delete my account and moving on? Only reasonable one? Are you seriously trying to make out I'm trying to win popular opinion? Seriously this place is bizarre. I don't care about what you think. I can't begin to imagine how you got here. I had a problem with people cherry picking, and not being sincere, but I see you're some sort of plant that preys on people trying to be true. Makes them think they're (you) genuine and then...

Oh well.

No point talking to any of you. Maybe it is me that's bizarre - expecting decent behaviour and understanding. I'll go back to thinking people are untrustworthy, as clearly evidenced. Go on feel righteous.

Rather than telling her what not to do, can you explain what you would have done in the immediate term to a physically mature male physically threatening you in your home when you are also the victim of abuse?

Thank you!

I know.. a quantum leap!

There’s been no update as to the son … OP was referring to his older brother in the post.

Ah. Sorry for misreading that. Poor woman. It sounds as though she has done a lot to build a happy violence-free home for her boys, and is trying very hard to do the right thing. Hopefully the older boy can be a positive influence here, sort of the father figure his own actual father is clearly incapable of being.

Cannot believe all the crap that OP has copped from some posters.

This is learned behaviour from being a child and seeing an abusive relationship - it’s not right but you and your ex need to address the history

I know, some posters will resort to some real flights of fancy to try to shift from a male to a female.

@summerviews

"Having said that, bother had been acting overly menstrual the last couple of weeks. "

The language and expressions used in your house seem very unpleasant.

You did the right thing @summerviews
There has to be zero tolerance for VAWG.

You've taught him a valuable lesson. I'm so sorry he behaved like that to you.