To throw my 16 yr old son out after he squared up to me

[summerviews]

I have been busy all weekend sanding the staircase. My son brought two big bags of washing down and asked if they could be done. I said of course.
An hour or so had passed and I thought I'd ask him to put a wash on. He did this, no bother.
A couple of hours later I asked him to pop his washing into the dryer. Which he did.
Roll on this evening my eldest came home and wanted to get a wash on ready for work tomorrow. He put it on a quick wash. Once it's done, he goes to the dryer and realises stuff is in there and it's still wet! My 16 yr old son says he doesn't know why, and wants to take it out regardless. I explain that he should keep it in the dryer and let it dry properly or the clothes will stink if left damp or wet. He tells me I'm to blame as the dryer is my responsibility. I let this narky comment slide and calmly tell him to leave the washing in and turn it back on.
I know what's happened, he's put his washing in there earlier and not started it at the beginning of the cycle, so it's only done a half cycle, if that. But I say nothing (I pick my battles).
Literally less than five mins later 16 yr old walks to dryer and begins to pull everything out to check if it's dry yet. 🤦🏼‍♀️ I say "son, do you actually want to die?! In a playful, yet exasperated tone. "Put the washing back in!" I get up and begin to make my way over there to put everything back in, as he's just standing there with an angry look. As I'm walking, he says, "SAY THAT AGAIN!!". I tell him not to talk to me like that, that I'm trying to help him. He is still stood stock still, fists clenched and butts me with his chest (like a 'come on then!' kind of thing) he's done that to me once before a very long time ago and he was distraught with himself for being so horrible to me. I'm shocked at his reactions to say the least as it was never that deep as I now realise he's being aggressive and this is ridiculous behaviour. I tell him to stop and to have some respect, I remind him I'm his mother and to never do that to me again because I won't tolerate it! He then loudly shouts that I'm a "BITCH!" in my face. So I quickly walk away from him. I'm literally gasping for words, as I'm so upset and shocked. I shout to him to pack a bag and get out, that I will not stand for violent abusive behaviour from a child of mine.
I text his dad to come and get him (were not together). I say to him, don't ask my why ATM, son will explain.
He goes upstairs packs some stuff and leaves, shouting a cheery "bye everyone!" as he goes. Once son has left, I text dad asking him to talk to son about domestic abuse and that I don't tolerate it, and that I am ashamed of son's actions.
An hour or so later my phone is flooded with voice notes and messages from his dad accusing me of saying "do you want to die??" And that son was right to react the way he did and me saying it was abusive and violent is just the sort of thing I would typically do.
Ex was extremely abusive when we were together. That's the reason I left him.
Since then he has been a great father. No signs of abuse with new partner and soin look up to him.
For the rest of the evening I'm told I'm cancerous and is why no one wants to be with me and I'm a pathetic excuse of a mother.
I remind him of the abuse he has done when together and that I should not have expected anything in the way of advice to son from such an abuser. He continues to flood my phone with how I deserved what I got when we were together and that son is better off with him as I'm a pathetic excuse.
I blocked him. I can't take anymore of his abuse. I have been sobbing all evening.
I know my son will be upset with his actions today.
I was hasty in calling his dad, I know that now. At the time I was frightened and wanted to show my son I wouldn't tolerate such abuse.
I'm still sobbing. I don't want my son turning out like his father. I shouldn't have sent him to him. I've sent him into the lions den.

There is no jokey way of saying that.

Obviously his behaviour is unacceptable but you need to look at your own communication style too. I suspect that you are not as calm and reasonable as you think you are.

*In this context it CLEARLY means:
Clothes are still wet, they can get mouldy, so will affect your health
OP your son took this in another way. Like a physical threat to him. Kind of "I will kill you if you do not do your chores properly". *

It’s not clear at all- I had absolutely no idea that’s what OP meant and I’m a grown woman who isn’t stressed about my clothes being dry. Now that you’ve explained it to me, it makes sense that she’s referring to mould killing him rather than a jokey comment about her killing him.

I agree that the son didn’t understand the comment and took it as a threat hence the aggressive reaction. It’s not an excuse but it explains the unusual behaviour.

Ah here you are, perhaps reading up on autism/ASD, perhaps even CPTSD and rather than being judgemental, be empathic towards other people and what they may go through. Not everyone's experience is exactly the same as yours.

It is logical to take things literally, because it involves the truth. Sarcasm is false. Or it may not be sarcasm and may be an actual threat. Many people ASD don't understand social cues etc and so find navigating the majority POV difficult because they have to try to understand so much that is never explained.

Explaining that does not justify someone's further behaviour but may provide an explanation as to why, instead of just blackballing them permanently - reprimanding them without understanding would further exasperate them. Have you ever been in a situation where you didn't know how to do something, that those who did withheld the information, then told you off for doing it wrong - it's like that.

Now I'm not saying that this kid is ASD, but that's why some people take it literal, or they may just not like sarcasm, and see it for what it is. In an abusive household I know exactly what it is.

Ok but eventually he's going to do it to someone who isn't his mummy and they're not going to give a toss how warm and happy his household normally is.

How did you reach that conclusion? Have you not read what else I've said. No of course you haven't because you're only here to make arguments - you don't give a shit about the issue. Just to argue with people.

It's a really common joke to make. This thread is so confusing. He interpreted it as an insult, not a threat to his life, hence his reaction.

Of course there is a "jokey" way of that that. If not, do you think OP had grabbed a kitchen knife and started threatening her son over a tumble dryer??🙄

As a PP said - most families have a family "culture" that makes jokes in one family unique to them.

My family love the Royle Family and my sons call each other "little gay boy" like Jim Royle does. You would no doubt be clutching your pearls with shock and horror hearing this and yelling "HOMOPHOBIA!!!" at my very out there, totally tolerant, pride loving sons.

Op's son was being a shit and acting like a complete idiot. She acted fine in a very provoking situation, and allowed his dad to take him, nothing wrong with that.

So you think that excusing verbal/emotional abuse is ok?

And bizarrely trying to stop someone from speaking in the context of that. You trying to "out" me as a male has what relevance here. Have you suggested a potential solution or just ranted and raved over cherry picked comments, out of context.

OP I’m interested in the reaction/response of your older son. What does he reckon to it all?

Apologies if I have missed this anywhere.

You’ve done nothing wrong. Your son has learned how to be an abuser from his father. Take a strong stance against this OP, for your own sake and his future partner.

That's a bit of a reach.

I can imagine that's why boys may feel like the baddie regardless.

Not saying that's what some boys too, but to consign someone to that, after the OP (who might be biased or not telling the whole truth - not doubting that she is but hypothetically) one incident you want to bury one person forever?

Nothing you can say will change my mind. If my child wanted to hit me they would be out. He has somewhere to go.

I could argue about you being an enabler etc but I won’t. I gave my opinion to the OP because she’s asking for opinions, I’m not asking for opinions at the moment.

Tell me you’re a “boy mom” without telling me…

@ZeroSpoons

because you said I would blame the males in any situation. I said well, do you not blame the males in OP’s situation? A question you haven’t actually answered btw…

@ZeroSpoons

who has been emotionally/verbally abusive?

First person to ask me that.
He was shocked tbh. He has never witnessed his brother act like that before. Having said that, bother had been acting overly menstrual the last couple of weeks. I had put it down to finishing school and being overly anxious about his next step even though he is excited to be starting college next month.
I told eldest son he should have done his washing earlier and not leave it until Sunday evening causing everyone to rush about.
I also explained his younger brother clearly didn't operate the dryer properly and was trying to blame me for it. I told him I wouldn't be treated like that in my own home.
He agreed it was out of order of brother, but he didn't comment, as he was in shock.

Could he have words with him?

Most families have a unique culture. Ah I see, so if you are from an abusive family with a "unique" culture you should just accept abuse? Thanks for that snippet of worldly advice. Survivors of abuse should blame themselves as well I take it - I was my fault I was abused? Because it was "unique" to the family. Wow. Have you any more useful advice?

Oh wait you do - you say it's ok for an abuser to pick up his son.

oh sorry, @ZeroSpoons just remembered the bit in OP’s post about the son calling her a bitch, you must mean that.

He assaulted her? By doing what?

I read that he squared up to her, puffed his chest out and called her "bitch". None of which is acceptable, however it isn't assault. Did you read something else?

It's not that deep is it?

It's a way o saying "do as you're told" isn't it?

In reaction like I've just said - reactive abuse. I see you're using sarcasm in a indirect/passive aggressive way - by this language I can clearly see you have become aggressive. And so it proves the point of the whole thing - sarcasm is often aggression used indirectly. In person often the way it is said, not the words.

I reiterate look up "reactive abuse"

No one has said verbal/ emotional abuse is OK. People are saying that the OPs comment was not verbal or emotional abuse. It highly irresponsible to claim that it is, as it leads to the minimisation of actual abuse. People are also saying that nothing a woman says excuses a male using his physical advantage to intimidate her. This is an absolute. We can't have a society where we condone bigger stronger people threatening others with physical harm because they're upset with them. Ever. If we don't teach our sons this an an absolute we have no hope of addressing the epidemic of male VAWG.

I completely missed the part about your older son.

OP you sound incredibly reasonable and I dare say you’ve worked bloody hard to get your family to where you are now. All this drama when you were just trying to decorate the bloody stairs. Fingers crossed you get everything sorted in a day or two.

@ZeroSpoons

youre wrong sorry. Aggression is never justified. Whatever OP said to him it doesn’t give him the right to be physically aggressive towards her.