To let DD14 drink at home

[Elizvicky]

So lately DD has started to want to go further afield and there have been occasions she has drunk alcohol. She doesn't get drunk drunk bjt I worry about her being out and doing it. Her friends seem to want to go further snd further. Well tonight I felt uneasy about it a few things have happened and I worry about other people.
DD tends to be really honest and said her and her mates were planning to have a drink hence not wanting to stay home.
we agreeed her and her 3 friends could come here listen to music chill in the garden and have 2 glasses of low alcohol lambrini in the garden on the basis all parents knew. This is now happening and they are being great and I asked them to mix with lemonade too bjt can't help but think of done something wrong.

I was 13 and drinking cider and 20/20 and always in trouble being sick or In a vulnerable situation so I'm trying to avoid that whilst allowing a little teenage rebellion. As far as I can see it's legal I just worry I'm gonna have social services turn up now! My neighbour is also an arse so I'm worried he will report!

Some of the girls at school in the 70s used to club together and buy wine and drink it in the park. It was a regular weekend thing. They left school, grew up, stopped swigging wine in fields. All except one girl who couldn't seem to stop
She died in her early 30s leaving 2 young children x

I have dc aged 15 and 13. I have friends who do the same as the op, who provide their kids with alcohol so they and all their mates will drink at home instead of in town or the park.

It’s not for me. 14 (and 15) is just too young. I would not risk the damage to my kids’ developing brains. And for those saying they’ll do it anyway, they don’t because they don’t hang out in town or at the park. I think 14 is too young to be out on an evening unsupervised, personally.

They’re still children at 14. They have plenty of time to do this stuff later.

Just to be clear my daughter is no where near having sex. Again she is at home with 3 female
friends. Being taught sex comes within a loving relationship when the time is right.
sex and alcohol do not always correlate

I had alcohol occasionally without my parents knowing when I was 15, then a bit more at parties now and then at 17. I never really drank much until my 20s, and now I barely touch it at all, I just don’t like how it makes me feel.

My dc are 12 and 14 and I can't imagine giving them alcohol. I'll be honest, they never had Coke or Fanta at home growing up, and if they order a Coke when we're out, it's like they're living the wild life. Once they've reached full adult height and are physically developed, I won't mind if they have the occasional drink. But until then, they're still very much children, and it just feels completely wrong to give them a substance that affects the brain and body so seriously.

these are some of the risks
Higher risk of alcohol addiction later in life
Academic failure or dropping out
Mental health issues (depression, anxiety)
Riskier sexual behavior
Legal trouble or accidents

Hormonal disruption
Memory & learning issues
Poor decision making and impulse control
Emotional dysregulation
Sleep disruption
Liver stress

^None of this would be good for a teen whose body and brain aren't fully developed.

Why not steer them to another pastime not alcohol?

She’s still young, you have parental influence.

I was not referring to your daughter having sex. Somebody else mentioned sex so I was talking about that.

This is exactly how I feel. I was raised by parents who were daily drinkers and told themselves that "a little wine with a meal helps learn about healthy drinking". It was a bit of middle class delusion and they justified it to themselves by saying it was "what the French do". Probably familiar to many but ultimately it was a complete fiction that they cooked up to justify their own excessive alcohol use.

I was drinking (socially) from the age of 15 because it was so normalised around me that it was the only thing people could think of to do. I drank throughout my teenage years and into my 30s at a level which looking back was really unhealthy. I'm almost teetotal now and thankfully (so far) I haven't ever had any major health impacts. But l now look back at my youth and realise that my parents normalisation of drinking created loads of problems.

I realise that lots of children will drink regardless of what their parents say and that in some situations the parents need to supervise or set guardrails, as banning altogether isn't realistic or enforceable.

But the overall message to kids should be that alcohol is dangerous and that going down a path of heavy alcohol use is not a good idea. Why would you promote something to your kids when it's toxic and dangerous? And 14 is far, far too young. 16 or 17 possibly. But at 14 it has to be an all-out no for me.

I was raised by parents who were daily drinkers and told themselves that "a little wine with a meal helps learn about healthy drinking"

‘It was a bit of middle class delusion and they justified it to themselves by saying it was "what the French do".’

Yep. 100%.

It’s a hard no from me. I’m a parent to a 14 year old and a secondary school teacher and I drink myself.

You have normalised this in your head OP by saying “all teenagers do it, she’ll do it anyway.” Honestly, they don’t. Most don’t. Vaping is more of a problem than drinking. She shouldn’t be hanging round in parks and she shouldn’t be drinking anything, watered-down Lambrini or otherwise, at home. It’s OK to say no and put boundaries in place and if she won’t respect them, then that’s a different problem.

She needs a focus and a hobby. Whether it’s dancing, the gym, horses, football, singing, whatever, you need to help her to find something which has a bigger draw than hanging round in a park. That is the default for bored teens with nothing to do. And you absolutely need to challenge your own attitude here that you’re helping her manage alcohol safely. She’s underage and you’re not. Right now she shouldn’t be drinking at all and most of the kids at her school aren’t.

Lambrini?? Do you want them to throw up everywhere?

Get them something decent to drink! Bottle of cava and make bucks fizz or something. Please do not give anyone Lambirni again.

I’m glad others see it like I do. I think it comes with experience and age though sadly. It’s one of those things that lots of people think is classy if you’re middle class (nice wine etc) but appalling if you’re working class (can of cider / lager) but ultimately it’s the same alcohol. My Brother and his wife used to crack open the wine at lunch time whenever we went away with them or stayed over and then they were ready for bed at 7pm. They’ve had some long term health effects from that and have realised that it isn’t healthy. It’s a tricky one because you don’t want your kids to sneak it somewhere but if they came home clearly tipsy then you could put your foot down like you would if they were smoking / doing drugs. I’m almost teetotal, it doesn’t feel good when you’re hungover and once you’ve stopped you can see the unhealthy relationship others have with alcohol more clearly.

Same here. There was no hanging around the parks and shops.
During the week there was after school activities and homework and weekends were taken up with sports events, family activities and visits.

It's completely legal. SD is 15 and not much of a drinker, but she loves prosecco. If we're drinking prosecco the bottle will be on the table and she helps herself. She never goes crazy, a couple of flutes and most and not regularly. I think it's a good thing for them to learn their limits in a safe environment.

I think you are doing the right thing OP. My parents ran a pub for years. There were a few 16/17 year olds that used to go in, but my dad would draw a blind eye as long as they were only having a couple, not causing any sort of trouble and were with others that were old enough. His logic was he could supervise them and keep them safe - and cut them off if he felt they were having too much. He also wouldn’t let them do things like shots! As he said, if he didn’t do it, they’d be down the park getting wasted.

I never saw any of the ones who came in under age having a couple of drinks ever go out binge drinking/getting drunk once old enough. Do you know who I did see doing that? People like me, who didn’t drink alcohol until they turned 18.

I rarely drink these days, but we do allow our children a drink on a special occasion and it isn’t a taboo subject. I believe doing it this way stops the need or want to go and get plastered as soon as they’re old enough, because it’s been normalised to only drink in moderation.

Yep, I didn't touch alcohol until I started Uni and my parents were very over-protective and strict about that sort of thing. I went completely wild, binge drinking off the scale. It's taken me a long time to find a healthy relationship with alcohol.

I’m glad you’ve managed to find that. I think there’s a fine line between just letting your kids do what they want, and giving them appropriate boundaries to experiment/try things safely. A blanket ban, in my experience, just doesn’t work. Learning to drink in moderation is far preferable to getting blind drunk every night once old enough!

OP I wonder whether it would be worth inviting the same girls around again next weekend, and giving them normal teenage drinks. Then check with them the following day to see if they enjoyed themselves just as much as they did the night you allowed them to have alcohol. Don't mention the alcohol side of things when you ask, just ask if they had a good time, and then ask if it was as good as last time. Assuming they say yes, then you can point out to them that they can have just a much fun without alcohol, as they did with it. Then point out that it's the company you keep that makes for a fun night out, not how much alcohol you have. Just a thought.

I come from a long line of alcoholics on both sides of my family, thankfully it missed my mum and dad so we were brought up with 2 adults that had responsible drinking habits. From around the age of 8 I was allowed a shandy( a touch of lager with a pint of lemonade on top) a babycham or snowball at Christmases or special occasions. Then when I was about 16 I was told never to lie to them about going out drinking with friends or I would never be allowed out again. So I would tell them the truth but if I ever came in totally hammered, slurring my speech and not knowing who or what I am then again I wouldn't be allowed out. I am not saying it made me an angel that only had 3 drinks then stopped but I always knew my limit.

I'm 47 now and very rarely drink as I just don't like the feeling of losing control and I have 1 son that doesn't drink at all as he doesn't like the taste, one that will have a drink if he is out with mates and my youngest is 18 and will have a drink if he doesn't have work the next day or doesn't have anything planned as he doesn't want alcohol ruining his day

At this age friends influence more than parents, if her friends are drinking then she will be too unless you never let her out. I had friends that were allowed to drink and although I wasn't allowed I was still drinking from 15, mostly spirits.

Parents just aren't influential at this age so it doesn't really matter if they ban it completely or let them drink a bit or even quite a bit sometimes - it really comes down to their peers.

IMO though it's parental drinking that influences kids more once they become adults themselves. My parents don't drink and as an adult I don't either, where children see their parents handling stress, exhaustion, depression, anxiety with alcohol that's where it's more likely to become a problem IMO. That where children learn to see it as a coping mechanism. On the other hand of course if teens have a lot of problems themselves and find that it seems to help - well that can be very problematic to.

I think what you've done is ok OP as long as it isn't happening every weekend. I'd try to keep it as a birthday/special occasion thing for now and encourage her to go out and do things with her friends that don't involve drinking.

@Overwhelmedandunderfed

It’s one of those things that lots of people think is classy if you’re middle class (nice wine etc) but appalling if you’re working class (can of cider / lager) but ultimately it’s the same alcohol.

Exactly. So much problem drinking gets swept under the carpet in middle class homes in particular because it involves middle class behaviour and upmarket alcohol so it looks respectable.

I'm not saying this applies in the OP's case and I think she's trying to be pragmatic and sensible. But I feel like so many people normalise the idea of children drinking with these weird fictions and defeatist behaviour. "It's going to happen anyway so why not supervise it," etc.

It might happen, yes, and you cross that bridge in a responsible way when you come to it, but that doesn't mean you have to advertise the idea that drinking is great and normal to a teenager. At least try to delay it as long as you can.

And there's a massive difference between 14 and 16. Supervised drinking at 16 I think is OK. 14 is just way too young.

OP i feel you ! My child is a similar age.

Tbh i think some people are absolutely in denial. There's so much stuff you can't control and wonderful if your child never wants to drink.

My child never showed an interest in drinking but then all it takes is to slightly widen your social group, have one child who does and they all start thinking about it.

I think an honest dialogue is actually the only way forward because if they want to, they will. I found all sorts of ways of doing things when I was younger and like you ended up in vulnerable situations as a result.

My child hasn't frequently drunk but there have been 2 occasions where it's happened. They haven't drunk to excess and we've talked about the importance of not drinking much as your body isn't used to it and keeping hydrated

They also know if it gets taken too far, they can call me without fear and I will always come and get them.

I've never bought them any as I know there are a couple of friends who bring some and I think the less they have access to the better.

I personally think this age is maybe about building a healthy relationship with alcohol where its not this big awful thing they have to hide as that creates an unhealthy relationship with it. I don't actively encourage it at all and bar a sip of champagne at Christmas have never given them any.

It's a very tricky age and different teenagers show interest in things as different ages. We're all trying to manage it the best we can and I think you acted in a responsible way.

You should be pleased you have an open dialogue with your daughter.

So no under age sex allowed but risking alcoholism and brain damage is OK?
Just wow.
I have many many dc. Most adult. They know my boundary is zero tolerance to under age drinking or sex.
They haven't burnt me at the stake for decent parenting. Stop being the cool dm op.
What next drugs because it's safer under your roof?

I don't think it's good for adults to encourage children to drink alcohol

And "but they'd be doing it anyway" feels like a cop out

Best approach is to educate about risks, encourage healthier pursuits eg sport and pro social friends

The research contradicts mumsnet - children whose parents allow and facilitate underage drinking will drink more and at riskier levels than those whose parents do not allow it.

Based on that we decided not to allow drinking under 18. I knew that it wouldn’t stop them drinking altogether if they were determined. DD is now 19 and says we were definitely the strictest parents around alcohol. I asked her if her friends who were allowed to drink underage did it more sensibly and she laughed.

Everyone seems to agree that the nature of teenagers is to sneak around and push boundaries. But yet you think a couple of parent endorsed low alcohol drinks in the garden will be sufficient? And they’ll never want anything more? I think that’s a bit naive. Chilling in the garden at 14 does not require alcohol.

Definitely. On Wednesday, we had a boardgame night, between the three of us, we finished a bottle of prosecco and my DH also had a beer. We had fun. Last night, we played the same games again and this time we didn't have any drinks. We had just as much fun and noted how even a small amount of alcohol had meant we were less good at the games we were playing which was funny, but also quite important I think. SD is learning that even if she doesn't feel tipsy or notice, even a glass or two can impair judgement and make her less sharp. Not a big deal when it's just losing catastrophically at Catan, but very different when you're thinking about driving.