Entitled dickhead in beauty spot

[grizzlyoldbear]

I was sat on a bench at a beauty spot in a nature reserve I’d never been to before, really peaceful, very quiet, no one else around. A man turned up with his dog and just stood there, it was very unnerving and I think he was waiting for me to move. “Lovely view, isn’t it?” he said in a pointed, hovering way.
As soon as I scrambled away from the bench (couldn't get out of there fast enough), he sat straight down. It was obvious he’d been waiting for me to f* off so he could have the bench to himself.
I found it really intimidating and creepy, especially as it was so secluded. It completely ruined the moment , I just wanted a quiet sit in nature, not to be silently pressured off the only bench.
Am I overreacting or would others have felt the same?

@FalkorFluff this is exactly it - men demanding our attention and energy, unconsciously, (or disgustingly aggressively) like your horrible queue encounter and assuming we want to give it.

They wouldn’t do it to men, no, they know we feel vulnerable.

@Dappy777 i think this is true & it’s very sad.

I haven't likened the two, YOU did that! Don't twist it.

Which part of my comments are you missing? I specifically said the man doesn't appear to have done anything wrong in this scenario but many men should be more aware of approaching women alone in secluded areas. What are you struggling with here.

Will you address your disgusting attitude towards what women are allowed to feel uncomfortable about? We have to accept being perved at and shouldn't tell other people about it, because that isn't rape so who cares?

Why you think you can have an opinion on how women should feel in these situations when you are a man is even more revolting. Spoken like a pervert apologist.

Jesus wept @lunaswandare women now not only supposed to ignore their instincts and wider statistics and evidence about risk, but also do some kind of mental gymnastics creating imaginary scenarios that not only give men the benefit of the doubt, but make sure women twist their feelings of threat and alarm into a female-appropriate caring and empathetic stance towards strange men who are staring at them? Nah, if I’m ever in that situation I’ll be getting the fuck out of there while making a heavily negative judgement towards the creepy bloke, as OP did

I also wonder why women jump to the conclusion that all men want to attack them in some way or make them feel uncomfortable.

Obviously listen to your gut but there's an awful lot of demonising all men because of the behaviour of a few

The man in OP's scenario didn't appear to have done anything wrong

For me it’s because I have been sexually assaulted on several occasions and my guard is up. There is a power imbalance between men and women and sexual aggression pretty much only goes in 1 direction. Doesn’t mean all men do it but any situation where that is a possibility will raise my levels of vigilance.

You would not like it if someone loomed over you and stared at you so why pretend.

There is a saying 'it's better to be judged by twelve than to be carried by six."

I'm inclined to agree.

but he wasn't looming over her - 'A man turned up with his dog and just stood there'

It seems men should all wear a bell to warn the sexist of their approach.

Maybe ensure they sew a badge onto their jackets too to identify them.

This is dangerous rot.

I have, and plenty other men and women I know have been sexually assaulted by women.

It doesn’t get reported because women refuse to take it seriously, and it’s frequently women who administer these services.

This thread is disturbing in how many people seem willing to overlook or pooh-pooh sexual assault when it’s their team in the spotlight. But absolutely keen to vilify the other team for anything, even just standing still near a woman.

sexism is ugly and this thread is an embarrassment to all women and Mumsnet.

I have yet to speak to anyone, man or woman, who was assaulted by a woman It’s women who administer these services is a curious turn of phrase, I’d never describe what I have received from men as “ services”. Do men go out at night or in lonely places in fear of a woman exposing her genitals/ following them/ grabbing them? I’m guessing not so much.

Which part of what @TheGander said is dangerous rot? I'd argue it's dangerous rot to shame a woman for pointing out what the statistics prove to be true.

I understood feeling unnerved... however he didn't do anything to you did he?

As annoying as it is, as I too like to be alone, he had every right to be there as you were.

He probably sat down because you'd left it?

Maybe he was an awkward shite and didn't want to ask?

However, he didn't do anything so you can't be mad he sat down when you left?

I know as being a woman on your own in a secluded spot can be wary with a stranger there. But he was only doing what you were doing alone and enjoying the view. Maybe his clumsy way of talking about the view was his awkward attempt at making conversation?

Yes there are so many creeps, no I'm not an apologist for men, in fact can't often stand the fuckers but am not gonna label him a creep for sitting down when you left.

I am not a man.🤔So because you were apparently looked at in a Co Op queue it’s now all about you being “perved at” and an innocent man can’t wait for his turn on a beauty spot bench. Women can feel what they like, what they can’t do is dictate who uses facilities in a beauty spot and make ridiculous accusations based on nothing.

I voted YABU, but because YABU for moving - I walk my dogs on my own in quiet, isolated spots and it wouldn't occur to me to move unless the guy was being outright aggressive in which case I'd definitely move on sharpish, because it's not worth the risk. Someone being a bit of an arse and hoping you'd move? No chance.

This reminds me of my brother a bit. He's autistic (well, he still uses the term Asperger's as that's what it was at the time) and struggles with the correct amount of personal space, making conversation and volume! He really is a very lovely generous person and loves to chat -
I'd imagine he'd be thinking: "I want to sit down but don't know how to ask, I will wait my turn, and talk to make her feel better"

In the absence of any evidence of him actually doing anything other than attempting a conversation and looking at you, I don't think he did anything wrong.

Shuggles, on another thread about a man approaching a woman in isolated woodland, you objected to the OP saying the man was obese. I think most women would see the point of her comment, as she ran for her life, guessing that his weight would slow him down.

Fair enough, you’re a man with a male point of view.

But is it really so difficult to imagine a woman’s point of view? Men attack women in isolated places, and they may start by making conversation. Is it really surprising women don’t want to look vulnerable?

Do people slagging off the OP and women who are alert to the dangers from men not engage with current affairs at all? Given the stats on assault by a stranger (overwhelmingly men), physical power imbalances and the high stakes involved in this potentially taking place in an isolated area, I’d question why a woman wouldn’t be alert to a potential threat by a man going out of his way to stop and stare at a lone woman. even if this was for ostensibly benign reasons to share pleasantries or to get her to share/ move from the bench, surely both women and men will have some understanding and empathy for the OP? I cant understand the defensiveness and hostility to her post

Trader Ben seems an odd username for a woman, but that is by the by.

'apparently looked at in a Co Op queue it’s now all about you being “perved at”

I wasn't 'apparently' looked at. More trivialising from YOU. I was accosted and leered at for a prolonged period of time to the point that a member of staff felt they may need to intervene. I can assure you if I were going lie about something it would be more interesting than an encounter in my local CoOp!

I find it curious how quick you are to come to the defence of the bench man, yet you are even quicker to dismiss my experiences as practical bullshit. If you really are a woman (still doubt it) it's very toxic behaviour.

'and an innocent man can’t wait for his turn on a beauty spot bench.'
At what point have I said this?

Who has attempted to dictate what facilities men use?

Do you want to quote any other random crap that nobody has actually said...

I don’t really see a problem maybe he had a creepy vibe but lovely view seems fairly generic and pleasant. If reply with something equally generic about the weather and ask if wanted to sit. Then skedaddled or stayed and said hello to the dog.

There were two posters commenting on your word choice, not one you'd already told, and I don't like it either.

Of course what you said minimises a real and serious crime. Someone looking at you, even in the way you describe, bears no resemblance to rape whatsoever. You might feel uncomfortable, or like what they're doing isn't appropriate, but that's really not the extent of actually being raped, which is violation on a whole different unspeakable scale.

As it is, you've literally modified the word to make less of it, while trying to retain some sense of the violation or power involved. There'd be nothing wrong with acknowledging or apologising when other women are brave enough to say that mocks or trivialises the trauma of their worst experiences.

Neither did the Yorkshire Ripper, he slipped through the police net once or twice.
Just saying...

And this man did do something wrong.
My DH would have instinctively known not to get too close to OP, not to stare, maybe just mention the view, and then move on.

That's what decent men do.

YANBU but tbh the moment was ruined whether or not the person was male or female. Yes, there's an added layer of potential physical threat with a man but anyone who interrupts the peace and quiet with a trite (but pointed) remark about the view has spoiled the moment so staying put would have just dragged you into a silent standoff over who got to claim the space.

As for those commenting about sharing the bench? You all either weird with zero respect for personal space or being completely disingenuous and I suspect it's the latter.

You were not u op, I was trying to explain to my husband the constant state of alert I'm on when out with the dog on my own.
I'm an old woman now ( 58) and completely invisible, however it still doesn't seem to stop women of my age being attacked, I know it's rare but still.
He. Just. Didn't. Get. It.
I was walking along a country lane near my house in the heat last week when in the distance I spotted a man, I couldn't see properly at first,( for some reason I always look to see if they have a dog with them,) makes me feel a little more reassured. I got a little closer and realised he was wearing very little, a pair of swimming trunks? That in itself made me wary, he passed by not making eye contact, when I explained it to my husband he didn't get why I thought it odd a bloke would go out walking in next to nowt, ffs. And why it might make women he came across uneasy, the bloke was odd and 95% of people pass and say good morning etc. The fact he scuttled by without acknowledging was weird in itself.