To not want to move after saying I would??

[Tryingtobepatient001]

Morning Mumsnet community,

Would love a bit of advice or perspective here.
My husband and I have been together for 8 years and in that time he's nearly always wanted to move to the US for work - his company's head office is there and for his career he is best to get promoted if he's there. They tried to move him in 2019 but the visa was rejected.

Fast forward 6 years and we're now married, have built a really nice life for ourselves and recently had a little boy. I've found it tougher than I thought I would and my friends and family have been massive support since husband has gone back to work.

Last week husband had his appraisal and was told they wanted to promote him and they could start the visa procedure. He told me this after his call and although they said he could take time to think about it, I'm pretty certain that he said yes we would be up for it. As soon as he told me I burst into tears as I realised I just don't want to move.

Here we have friends and my family, a gorgeous house and very comfortable lifestyle. If we move he will get a good payrise but I'm unsure if I'll work (can't for the first 6 months) - if I do it'll mean I'll have to put my LO into childcare and miss out on a lot due to long US work hours, but if I don't my life will be me and a one year old every day.

Husband doesn't seem to be able to see my perspective and said we've always said we would do this so I'm back tracking now. He also insinuated that if he knew I wouldn't go he wouldn't have married me/had a child. His career has always been really important to him and it's clear it's priority over what I want.

I don't know what to do. Husband is being pretty adamant that this is happening. So I either don't go and risk splitting up our family, or go and risk being really unhappy and lonely.

AiBU to change my mind on something now it's happening??

You won't be able to return with your child unless your H agrees to it and if you are there on a visa that is linked to him working there you may not even get your own visa and be allowed to stay if you were to separate. So, worse case scenario, you might be forced to leave the US whilst your H and child stays.

I can see both sides.

It's been his long held dream and plan and he wasn't to know you've changed your mind on it.

I can also see why you wouldn't want to go and be a trailing spouse.

In your shoes I'd probably try and look into it and see if there was a compromise of a time limited stint there.

But when your dc start school etc it will be much harder to move in either direction

People are allowed to change their minds. Having a baby puts a new perspective on everything.

I have seen that happen with my own eyes

You agreed to the premise of something at some point in the future. Your life has changed, the political climate has changed, you have changed and you now have a child which is massive.

If you never changed your mind, you'd railroad through life making some really big errors. Things change.

There are decisions I made a decade ago which would not suit me now, and that is the way life works. Do not let him hang you up on this agreement, if you feel that it is not what you want now. You also need to thoroughly investigate all the legal ramifications regarding what would happen should you split while over there, should you consider going. I've spend a decent amount of time in the states and while I would have considered pockets of it liveable some years ago, wild horses couldn't drag me to live there now.

I can understand why you've changed your mind. I can understand why your husband is pissed off.
However to say he wouldn't have married you or had a child. It shows he puts his career before you and your child.

This is such a difficult one @Tryingtobepatient001 I really can see it from both perspectives. Firstly I must say, If I had to move anywhere in the US, it would be Boston, it’s a beautiful/fun/bustling city and I can absolutely see how it could offer a great quality of life. That said, I do think your husband might be focusing fully on the positives and not fully considering the potential downsides, particularly the cost of living. Even with a pay rise, the reality is that the US is currently incredibly expensive, and you really don’t know yet what your actual quality of life would be like. Your circumstances have changed, and it’s completely valid for you to have doubts now. It’s not just about you anymore, you have a family to think about, and he really needs to take that into account. Would you consider giving it a trial run? That way, you’re not saying no to something that’s clearly important to him, but you’re also not making a full commitment right away. Set clear rules and boundaries: don’t sell everything here if you can avoid it, keep hold of the house if possible, and agree to try it for six months or a year. If it doesn’t work out, you come back…and make that clear to him from the start. Equally it depends on how much you trust this man because as people state leaving could potentially be a challenge and you are putting yourself in a risky position, again, make that clear to him. You never know, you might actually love it. Personally, I wouldn’t pass up a chance like this, but with a child (who is a good age to make a move like this btw) I would definitely weigh it all much more carefully.

I don't actually think either of you are being unreasonable.
This has been his dream, and it's one he thought you were 100% behind.
You have changed your mind. It happens.

I would check with actual lawyers about the immigration status, and ability to move with your DC, rather than scaremongering on MN. At a practical level, it also seems unlikely that if it didn't work out he'd insist on keeping your ds - by the sounds of things, he is definitely happy to leave you as default parent while he prioritises work but I appreciate you can't make major decisions on that.

I would also get a lot of detail on the package. How long is it it for? What does it include - eg travel to and from the UK on a regular basis? Housing for how long to help set up and save money etc? Andd then do your research. I had a friend who moved to the US a few years ago for her DH's work adn she did a lot of research in advance about schools, areas, communities etc so that it could all be incorporated into his package. They landed up in an ideal school district in a lovely house paid for by his company for something like a year which then gave them time to figure out what to do next. They've actually landed up staying after his 3 year contract ended.

I think I might see your side if you have a reason but your reasons are nonsense

1. You have a nice house and lifestyle here and would also have a nice house and lifestyle there. That’s not a reason not to move then.
2. You don’t know if you want to work or be a SAHM. That’s the same in the UK or the US. That’s not a reason not to move then.

It’s perfectly fine if things change your mind or your priorities or your ambitions if you have an actual reason. It’s incredibly unreasonable to suddenly decide you will not to something that’s your DH’s lifetime ambition for completely baseless reasons.

If I always wanted a church wedding (for example) and DH knew that, agreed to that, supported that and then, when it came to booking the venue, decided he absolutely wouldn’t do a church wedding because it only has capacity for 100 people and insisted on a barn wedding that also only had capacity for 100 people, it’s be rightly very pissed off. If both venues have 100 person capacity, why can’t we have the church?

If I always wanted to do a degree and DH agreed I could do one once we had DCs and we carried on that way and completed our family and then he decided I can’t do a degree because he doesn’t want to lose my income and instead wants me to volunteer locally then I’d be really angry - we’re losing my income either way, so why is he insisting on volunteering instead of studying?

The reasons you’ve given to not move are the same in the UK or the US. If you have an actual reason then share it but I’d be really upset if my DH pulled the plug on mutually agreed plans for no legitimate reason at all.

The fact that it's Boston would make me more positive about the move.

Boston is a wonderful city - loads going on - and it's in a liberal part of the US. There is a big expat community and a British curriculum school there too.

Plus, Massachusetts is such a beautiful, picturesque state and the climate is certainly manageable - cold winters and hot summers, but not too extreme.

Boston is also only a 6hr-ish direct flight to London, plenty of flights every day (which means they aren't expensive), so easy to get back to the UK quite frequently.

However, Boston is a very expensive city to live in, so the package would have to be good enough to enable you to sustain your current standard of living. Your DH needs to bear in mind you will not be able to work for some time, so everything will be on him to support the family financially.

I think there needs to be some proper cards on the table here. Your DH needs to get all the facts from HR about what the package entails. Will your housing be paid for? What about future school fees, if you want your child to go to the British curriculum school? What's the health insurance package? Will they pay for return flights every year? And so on.

Your DH is entitled to his dream, but it has to work for you all on paper. Going out to the US with a family to support is not the same as going out as a single person. You don't want to be living in a tiny apartment when you are used to a spacious home in the UK.

I would also say this - if your DH's visa was refused before, it may well be refused again. Trump is massively cutting down on work visas and there are smaller quotas every year. The focus is on finding work for Americans and unless your DH's job has to be done by a British person for some reason (i.e. specific British qualifications/experience required) then there's no guarantee the company's request for visa sponsorship will be approved. At the moment the company can't and shouldn't be promising him anything because they are not in control of whether the visa gets approved or not.

I agree with PPs that say this is backtracking. I think you avoided being honest from the start. I think whatever happens, this will be a huge problem in the relationship and like others say, marriage counselling should come into it. There was deceptive behaviour and this needs to be addressed.

I would be fuming if my DH pulled the wool over my eyes pretending he was agreeable to something as important as career progression and then turning around when what we always talked about happened, and being emotional and going back on his words.

I believe if your dc is born in the UK, there’s not a problem for you to come back. I have lived in Massachusetts and it’s a lovely part of the world. Tbh I think my dh’s career was held back slightly by us not wanting to move and disrupt the children’s education. If your dh’s company are keen for him to go, it may be the only way for him to progress in that company. Tbh if he was rejected for a visa in 2019, I wouldn’t be very optimistic about being approved this time around either.

@JSMill It doesn't matter where the child is born, it's where the child i deemed to be a habitual resident that matters.

If she doesn’t want to, that’s a legitimate reason but actually she has made it clear that the family support was essential to her well-being
Unless he’s planning to Move the entire family over to the US, he’s going to be removing that from her

It’s not ‘nonsense’ not to want to be a trailling spouse.

US law and visa rules apply in Boston.

Being a SAHM somewhere with the option to seek paid work at any time isn’t the same as being somewhere with a visa that doesn’t allow you to do any paid work, or where to get paid work you’d need to persuade an organisation to go through hoops and incur high costs to hire you.

My parents moved to Canada and then the US for my Dad’s job when my brother was a baby and I was 3. My mother said that was a great time to move because with young kids you sign up to playgroups and baby swimming and library reading sessions and so on, which means you meet heaps of other mothers with similar aged children, and it’s much easier to make friends than when they moved without children. You just have to go with an open mind and throw yourself into it.

The reasons are not nonsense, or baseless. Nor is your church wedding vs barn wedding at all helpful. There may be lots of reasons someone changed their mind and decided they would no longer like to get married in a church, I don't want to being one of them. Just because something once sounded like a good idea, pre kids, 8 years ago, doesn't mean it will sound like a good idea forever.

I think its awful to say he would not of married you or had a child if he knew you would change your mind. You have it accurate he prioritizes career, and clearly feels no shame about this. he was clear all along on his career plans, and you have changed your feelings based on child. its a significant change to disagree on so feel you both need to discuss this. Maybe he goes and sets up home and you commit to a few weeks visit to check it out, i personally would not like to bring up children with the cost of education in the states, nor would i like to live there atm.

Yes definitely check this OP, I know that this is a massive problem for brits moving to Australia but not sure about US. I used to live in Aus and was on quite a few expat forums where women were trapped as husbands had buggered off with new woman but they wouldn’t allow mum’s to return back to UK with children. Please make sure you fully understand your rights.

people don’t say that kind of thing to fathers @SummerInSun

All very well if it works out. Almost all the risks fall on the trailing spouse.

Having an open mind and throwing yourself into it won’t take away those risks and imbalance of power.

My mother too was a trailling spouse with small DC for a few years, in Europe, and it worked out very well. I have lived and worked abroad (before marriage and DC). I personally wouldn’t take the risks and wouldn’t expect a spouse to

No way on this earth would i move to the US. I know somebody who did move because her husband was from there. It was only meant to be for a few years, but almost as soon as they stepped foot on American soil, he said he wasn't willing to move back to the UK. Ever. So now she's trapped out there because they have three children and either she leaves them behind and sees them once a year, or she stays in an unhappy marriage. So she's gone for the latter.

Screw sending my kids to a school where they might get shot as well.

I lived in Boston for a few years. It is a lovely city but I wonder where you are now and if you’ll cope with the endless traffic and horrific winters. Yes the weather is even worse than the UK. That said, it’s one of the more liberal, civilised places to live in the US and the schools are good. VERY expensive.

This.
Whilst I can see both sides... it was his long term plan and he did spell it out.. but it was something that was going to happen in the long term and now reality has struck. In that time you have built a life here and would be adrift there without family and friends.
as pp have pointed out.. it is a bigger risk for you than it would be for him.

He's going to a secure career which he's always wanted... you are going to a place where you may not be able to work at least for a while and the long childcare hours if you did. If the marriage cannot survive the uprooting, as pp have said, you risk not being able to leave with your child.

Marriage
I think before you uproot, you have to assess the risks very carefully but more fundamentally assess the strength of your marriage as it is now and whether it would survive the upheaval.
In this respect, his comment about never would have married you if he knew that you would change your mind about moving... I'd be thinking about what that actually means. On one level.. yes of course you want to marry someone with the same aims, but when you make marriage vows, its in sickness and in health for richer for poorer etc... It gives all the alternatives because we simply cannot predict what the future holds. Yes... as a young person in love it may have been an easier promise to make at the time.. but having a child changes everything. Did he factor that in?

Also.. does him saying "I never would have married you if... " mean that you haven't turned out the way he wanted? That marriage so far isn't worth it if he can't make the move to US? Sort of sounds like he's regretting being married to you. I beg your pardon for suggesting this if that's not the case, but in your shoes I'd want to ascertain if his meaning is just on this one point or if he's thinking that in general .
I understand that he was upfront about his plans... but did you understand how conditional his offer of marriage was? That he would not have risked it to be with you otherwise? Are his feelings unchanged over the years.. or did he always feel this way about your relationship? It comes across as very much take it or leave it situation. Is that enough? Only you know if that is the case. Is he a loving and considerate person, as focussed on you and your DS as he is on his career, if he is the first then that is a good reassurance?
Alternatives?
Its not as simple as.. are you prepared to go to US or not? Is he willing to discuss how it will all work when you get there.. That would all have to be thought through and agreed
Another thing I'd consider, in what is admittedly a hugely difficult decision, Is he willing to work on any alternatives - difficult though they may be, to accomodate you or is the whole thing based on.. "I'm doing this regardless" Is he prepared to introduce any flexibility in the way this happens? If it's the regardless path, then I'd be asking if that is a strong enough basis for following him because it's setting up a scenario where your opinion doesn't really matter. How much would your opinion count in all the other sub matters involved?

Guarantees?
He is effectively saying, when you married me you guaranteed we could move to US.. but what guarantees is he offering you if you do go, regarding your work, your child, your access to visiting UK.. What about finances.. is he sharing this massive new income, whilst you facilitate his move? What happens to your savings/pension given your career will be taking a hit? Looking at how things are currently organised between you could provide some insight on this. What if your career takes off later on? Are you both on the same page about more children or not ( one would be born in the US) Will he be travelling away from home a lot in the US?

Trust
Perhaps this decision comes down to an issue of trust.. Do you trust him to safeguard your future and your happiness if you make this sacrifice for him.. because it is a sacrifice however much he minimises it by saying "but you promised." I'm not sure as a single person you knew at the time what you would be giving up by leaving.

Really? I thought there was some international agreement about that.

I also have a friend in the states with three children, he had an affair, and is repartnered and she's still stuck there, with her family and support network back in the UK.

Given the fact that he's said that he wouldn't have had DC and prioritises his career over her and DC, then I really wouldn't be touching this move with a barge pole, and I've lived overseas quite extensively. But in these circumstances, absolutely not.