For thinking the details of my holiday are none of work's business

[Truffleshuffle84]

I work for a medium size company in he UK

Staff handbook says all leave must be agreed by your line manager and will be approved on the basis of business need and general staff numbers/ work coverage etc - all fine, been here for 8 years, never an issue. I'm in a team of 5 and collectively with our line manager we manage to get holidays to suit everyone etc.

Line manager left in June and we've got a new one from a different department, no issues, we all get on well.

But, I've asked for a week off in the autumn for the school holidays. LM replied asking when I was away and where was I going, I thought it was just a casual passing interest type question, replied with details of our plans.

They've now rejected my leave request because they don't think I'll be fit for work Monday returning from Tenerife on a Sunday on a flight that lands at 10.30pm (at an airport 20 mins from home).

I've not replied yet but AIBU for thinking it's up to me how I spend my annual leave and it's up to me to decide whether something is achievable whilst being ready for work the next day?

Leave can also be cancelled by the employer with the correct amount of notice.

🤣🤣🤣

And the correct reason. Has to be for operational reasons. This isn’t - by any stretch of the imagination.

Ridiculous. No - the only things they need to know are the dates you will not be in work and when you will return to work and ensure anything that may need attending to whilst you are off is sorted. They should give you enough trust as an adult and employee to be able to consider that you are responsible enough to make arrangements so you will be back for work and if not I would be concerned. Presumably they wouldn’t not allow a weekend because of the possibility of what you might do on a Sunday night and may not be in Monday is no different 🤷‍♀️

Craziness! I have had an overnight flight and gone straight to work from airport, boss fine, plenty of coffee then bed at 8pm. Your LM is an unbelievable micro manager.

Your manager sounds batshit lunatic crazy. Or a weird control freak

does this mean you aren’t meant to go out on a school night?! Ever?!

That's a good point: one of my employers for whom I had to travel long-haul once a month, expected my sleep to be on a red-eye! Leave the office in one city, get on a plane, get 4-5 hours of sleep sitting semi-upright, straight back into the office for a full day's work after landing.

This is actually really funny. You could go quite further with this person's ridiculous response.

HR seems to be your next step for this.

You could try responding something like - "I see. Well then, I will cancel the week's holiday and head off to Barcelona for the weekend only, I think there's a flight that gets in to [further away airport] at [as late as possible, ideally early hours of the morning]" but that's not wise, just momentarily satisfying.

In the future I would respond to any future questions from your LM about your personal life with something that means, in essence "My personal life is my business, please restrict your enquiries to work matters." Though not that direct unless they persist.

OP, unless you're the only person capable of performing heart transplant surgery (in which case you obviously have to be available, fully rested, 24/7, 365 days a year, just in case a heart suddenly becomes available ... oh, hang on, that is impossible, so you don't!) then this is just bullshit.

I wonder if the pillock is fretting about flights from the Canaries sometimes being delayed by the weather? But my money's on him just being an idiot.

Thats crazy. I work in a business where we have an international team travelling globally constantly to meet each other. Generally I fly early morning and go straight to the office in spain or italy or france, or fly late the night before and arrive early to the office or if its log haul then whenever is the closest time. As do the other 30 people on the team who all travel like this. If we were unfit to work for 24 hours after a flight then there would be no way any of us could ever do a full weeks of work.
Your work are being ridiculous.
Unless your job is going to involve doing neurosurgery on the monday morning at 6am, in which case maybe you need a good nights sleep.

Wow, this will do absolute wonders for your working relationship. What an idiot your LM is.

I go on holiday soon and my flight is due in at 11:00pm, I then have baggage reclaim and 1 hr taxi drive home - I am working next day at 08:45 - admittedly I'm not a brain surgeon just office work - I'm sure I'll be fine - most nights I go to bed between 12-13:00pm

I would have booked the next day off but if I did that someone else couldn't have had leave - my LM knows timings - not because she asked but because I said - and was fine with it

It's none of their business what you do on your days off. For all they know you could be out clubbing every night until 2am but that doesn't matter to them as long as you do your work effectively.

In my 20s, I remember many midweek work nights out (some paid for by the company) that would continue into the early hours and it was a badge of honour to spend the following day in work congratulating ourselves for being the most exhausted we'd ever been.

I hope your LN is going to ensure everyone has sex on Friday and Saturday nights only while she's at it.

She sounds an absolute loon.

I don't suppose you are a driver or anything like that OP?
Or is there form for calling in sick after annual leave?

The problem now is that you will worry unnecessarily during your holiday about any flight delays and this LN has ruined the trust between you.

The good thing is you now what exactly what type of controlling micro manager person this LN is and you can be on guard around her.
Sadly things are only going to get worse for your Dept. She will be determined to be the one who oversees everything and will end up pitting you all against each other.

How strange your new lm is. Omg she will be telling you that you cannot go out on a work night or on a Sunday in case you can’t turn up 100% fit for purpose I really hope she changes her mind but I would definitely not let that go she cannot dictate how you live or when you go away you checked there is no other staff off so saying you coming home late on Sunday is BS. How many people have done this on holiday flights maybe she can contact all airlines and ask them to fly no later than 2 pm what a load of shit.

I really hope your flight isn’t delayed

I have form for this on a Wednesday or Thursday night….. I’ve also had a few raucous nights (maybe 8 years ago) where I was having a saucy passionate time until 4am. Sleep for two hours, back up at six and off to work. I don’t have a dangerous job but other than being knackered how would anyone know?

Wow I'd be furious. I'd tell her that either she approves your leave or your booking a weekend away leaving directly after work on Friday and getting back 5am Monday.

Either that or raise a grievance against her for bullying, as she's not policing anyone else's bedtimes.

I think this is a good response. It's ridiculous she feels the need to parent you.

At least you'll be prepared in future.

This!!!! I’ve not been fit to work for the past year while my 4 year old has been getting in my bed at 3 am every fucking night 🤣🤣🤣

Are they routinely checking all staff bedtimes and sleep status? I rarely go to bed before midnight as routine.

Yanbu but put in your request again for the same sates and say that you have carefully considered their response and have rebooked flights to return a day earlier to give yourself a day to recover before work.

Then keep your mouth totally shut about what your plans are and do what suits you. They have no right to constrain what you do with your leave.

Don't even think about throwing a sickie on that Monday though.

She's not your mum, so where does she get off practically telling you you need your sleep?!
YADNBU

Please reconsider your travel plans and resubmit, I'm happy to approve this week off with different return times."

Ok. So you submit another request, for the same date, without any of the cosy, overfamiliar chitchat about where and when and what time. Hell, you can even say " I have reconsidered my travel plans as requested, and would like to request annual leave for (same dates) " What's she going to do, demand that you tell her what time your flights are before she'll approve it? She's already in the wrong for using none-of-her-business information that was supplied in the form of innocent chat to make her decision, now she's going to compound it by acting like you are obliged to tell her your exact travel plans? She can bloody well point to the place in your contract where it says your line manager decides your fucking bedtime.

Ugh, I was so outraged by the audacity that I didn't check all of OP's posts before sounding off 😆