For thinking the details of my holiday are none of work's business

[Truffleshuffle84]

I work for a medium size company in he UK

Staff handbook says all leave must be agreed by your line manager and will be approved on the basis of business need and general staff numbers/ work coverage etc - all fine, been here for 8 years, never an issue. I'm in a team of 5 and collectively with our line manager we manage to get holidays to suit everyone etc.

Line manager left in June and we've got a new one from a different department, no issues, we all get on well.

But, I've asked for a week off in the autumn for the school holidays. LM replied asking when I was away and where was I going, I thought it was just a casual passing interest type question, replied with details of our plans.

They've now rejected my leave request because they don't think I'll be fit for work Monday returning from Tenerife on a Sunday on a flight that lands at 10.30pm (at an airport 20 mins from home).

I've not replied yet but AIBU for thinking it's up to me how I spend my annual leave and it's up to me to decide whether something is achievable whilst being ready for work the next day?

Lie through your teeth.
"Hi twatmanager,
Turns out I was wrong about the flights - we're actually going Saturday to Saturday, so I'll be back Saturday evening. More than enough time to recover for the Monday."

🤯

What time do you start work and what do you do?
Pilot starting at 4am I see their point. Office job, nonsense.

I wouldnt lie. That could become a much bigger issue than escalating to HR/second line mgr

I had a manager years ago that asked you to book an extra day off if you were flying back late in the evening and working the next day.

Don't think it's massively unreasonable tbh and I usually do it anyway - if you're honest you probably will be shattered in work the next day.

Shouldn't be denying leave over it though, unless you're a brain surgeon or bomb disposal expert or something 😅

I’m an HR manager and if this was escalated to me, I’d be strongly advising your line manager to reverse his decision - and I mean VERY strongly

They’ve really overstepped imo.

I can actually remember landing back at Stansted at 2am and still going to work after about 3 hours sleep.

Frigging hell never heard of this before!!!! I know one of my colleagues returned in the early hours once and still came into work although she did have a later start. My other half has also done it many a time where we have returned late and he's gone to work next day.

This is ridiculous. They do not have the right to police your free time. I would challenge this, she hasn't presented a clear business need for you not to be off on the days you've stated because there is no one else off on those days. She is making huge assumptions about your fitness for work the next day. It's a flight from Tenerife, its not like you're going to be jetlagged.

I actually went into work on no sleep once after a particularly bad night with my eldest. Wonder what they would have made of that?!

It’s none of her business what you do outside of work of work hours.

How bizarre and intrusive.

Tell them your time off is personal time and until work starts on the day you're due to return they don't need to know what you're doing.
Well, say it in a more neutral way.

You could be going to Antarctica for twenty five minutes if you so desired?! Or just be staying in your house in your pants.

I went to work for 6 years without a proper sleep and I’m not joking. I was half dead and can barely remember it.

Doctors work all night and all day. They have peoples lives if their hands.

Go to HR and ask their advice. If they agree with you, cc them in on a factual response

The real tragedy here is that your LM has completely destroyed any trust they may have had with you. What an absolute idiot they are.

Obviously you won't be sharing any other information with them again in future, and be deploying only polite poker-face communication from now on.

Didn’t Margaret Thatcher only have 4 hours sleep a night! Also you could be a very sleep deprived parent of a poorly toddler or child. Are they going to make you employ a nanny overnight?

It’s absolutely none of their business!

They do not have the right to police your free time.

They definitely do to some extent in some jobs where you are required to be fit and rested when starting work.

For example if you are at risk of being breathalysed when signing on in the AM to some extent your private life is being policed/controlled, if you're in a job where there are legal rest requirements the company may have the right to ask a few questions.

It's very much an "it depends"...

At my work, it’s not uncommon for people to come off overnight flights at 8am then “work from home”. Sure this raises an eyebrow but I can’t imagine a manager actually saying anything, unless their performance that day was substantially sub par. Realistically in that case they’d be told to go to bed and make up the hours.

a 10.30 return, not that it’s their business in any way, would not even raise an eyebrow

Lol this is bonkers. Also...what about when women are up half the night with a teething one year old? No one thinks about fitness to work then! Ridiculous.

Bloody cheek!! Challenge it!!

How odd! What if someone goes to a BBQ on a Sunday night and doesn’t get home til midnight… are they also not fit for work??

Take this further OP, it’s utterly ridiculous!

Your LM is crazy, what you do on your own time is none of her business. She’s effectively trying to issue a work night bedtime to her team and I can’t imagine HR would be on board with that!

Are you a surgeon?

Anyway…are you not allowed to go to concerts/comedy shows on weeknights without taking a day of annual leave the following day?

Yep, former HR professional here and I'd be having strong words with the over-reaching LM too. I almost feel sorry for the daft LM that they put this reason in writing! 🙄

Just take an extra day and then cancel it when you're back as planned

No, not in my experience.

Where you are regularly drugs tested at work, it’s your responsibility to be drugs and alcohol free at work as you are subject to testing at any time.
You will get fired if you are tested positive.
It’s your responsibility.
The employer would not be policing your time outside of work hours.