Friend upset because of a comment I made about renting

[scarystories]

Last week, I caught up with a close friend and we started talking about pensions. This topic came up because I recently started a new job and chose to opt out of the private pension scheme. I've always made this choice for various reasons that I won't bore you with, it’s a personal decision that suits me. However, I completely understand why others would choose to have one. Of course, I might live until I'm 90 and end up eating beans on toast every day, who knows? But that's my issue, not anyone else's.

Anyway, I told my friend that I wasn't worried and was hopeful that my mortgage would be paid off in the next 20-30 years, so I wouldn't have to worry about that monthly expense. I mentioned that it's harder for people who rent, as that bill will always be there. This comment upset her because she rents, and she felt I was looking down on her. That was not my intention (I actually rented for 7 years before buying my house). I was only stating a fact: rent is a constant expense, whereas a mortgage eventually ends.

Was I wrong? Should I apologise?

That’s interesting, is there a back story maybe? I’m curious why you don’t understand that’s incredibly insensitive, most people would understand and have enough empathy to know not to crow about how you’re better off than someone else. Like a thin person saying well at least I’m not fat to their overweight friend, or at least I’m not on the dole thank goodness to their unemployed friend.

so I guess the real question is why you feel no empathy and don’t understand how this could be upsetting?

I wouldn't call to apologise. What you said sounds truthful and realistic to me. She may be upset that you were a bit of a show off about it, which only you would know if you were. If things are awkward next time you see her maybe ask if it's because of that conversation but I wouldn't personally dwell on it much.

I rented for a long time so could've done without comments like that. My favourite was MIL exclaiming 'great, you can buy it!' When we were given notice because our LL was selling. If I could afford and 2 bed flat up for sale for £499k I wouldnt have been renting it.....

On a side note, if you aren't paying into a pension how are you planning on funding the costs of maintaining your property? Your friend might have rent to pay but she won't need to fund a new kitchen, windows, boiler, roof etc...

Sounds like she’s upset to become aware of the truth. I wouldn’t worry about it. It doesn’t sound like you were lacking in empathy - you pointed out that you understand it’s harder for people who rent.

I don’t see why you had to make that comment about rent. Why not just say you’re not worried about your pension, because your mortgage will be paid off by then. Why add the comment about it being hard for people who rent, when you know that your friend rents? I would not have said that extra bit about renting. Nothing wrong with a bit of sensitivity to a friend.

Saying it's harder for people who rent in retirement is a statement of fact. If I were your renting friend I wouldn't have been upset about you stating the obvious but some people are very sensitive.

@TheRealGoose I rented on my own, worked full time and managed to save enough to buy a house. It took years of hard work, but I managed it. My friend has a partner, which means they have two incomes. If they really wanted to buy a house, I can guarantee it would be much easier for them than it was for me.

I must be totally lacking in empathy too: I rent, have done for the last 15 years and the fact that this bill will still be there after my retirement fills me with dread. If stating the financially obvious is so upsetting, this young lady has deeper problems than a neverending rent bill.
OP you have said nothing wrong, 2+2 makes 4 but some are sooo permanently upset.

It was very insensitive! I rented for 20 years before I was able to buy using an inheritance as a deposit. Many people just don’t have the option to buy. Homeowners seemed to make comments like this a lot to me when I was renting. Especially the classic “rent is just dead money”, well no, it’s money that kept a roof over my head when I didn’t have any other option. Your comment was basically telling your friend you expected her to be under financial pressure for the rest of her life - she will be well aware without you saying it.

I thought you were going to say that you said only people like The Clampetts rent or something! 😬 (Not true obviously, but some people have this attitude!)

You didn't say anything wrong, or innaccurate really. BUT, whilst people who rent will always have to pay rent, they won't have maintenance and repair bills. Ever. (Also, people on low income will have rent paid by benefits...)

A woman I know (early 60s) and her DH stopped paying for their house 3 years ago, but last year they had a £15,000 bill for a new roof. Also, they have shelled out a sum in the low 5 figures (£14K or so) for a new heating system, and new electrics in the past 3 years.

So just because you are mortgaged/are a homeowner, that doesn't mean you will be free of bills and outgoings when your mortgage is paid off. And as I said, whilst your friends who rent are still paying rent (if they not on a low income and getting housing benefit,) YOU will be shelling out 10s of 1000s of pounds for repairs and maintenance. A house has an ever open mouth, and even when you get one or two things done that need doing, before long, something else will need doing/fixing!

The 'renters' will get all their repairs and maintenance and 'modernising' of their house done for nothing. So I don't think you will be better off than your friends who rent. So if that was the reason for opting out of the pension, I would think seriously about opting back in.

Why is stating a fact 'crowing'? That is your interpretation of why OP said it would be harder in retirement for people who rent. It is true. Not bragging. The friend may not have even considered that previously.
Especially in the context of two friends having a conversation about different financial choices. OP has opted out of a private pension to prioritize her mortgage. Sounds like the friend was questioning that decision, if OP had to say she wasn't worried about it. Maybe OP should get upset about that?

Sadly no pension decision means the rest of us will be subsiding you when you get your pension probably including your rental friend
My bil spent his considerable wages on drink and high living so his widow can get all the freebies freee rates pip and everything else

It does sound like gloating. Of course it doesn’t change the fact, the friend will have to rent no matter what the OP says. But still Most decent people don’t gloat or rub it in. I know some people who do, it is not an attractive trait. I can’t believe this needs explaining!

Maybe it was the way you said it. Sometimes stating a fact is rude.

@Duvetcover01 Absolutely! I will have those expenses to cover, and that's my problem. I never claimed I wouldn't, just that I hope to have the mortgage settled. I understand the risk of not having a pension, and I'm aware of that.

I wasn't saying it in a mean-spirited way or in a way that suggests I'm better than other people. I just know that it's a worry for people who rent since that payment will always be there.

That's what I thought.

The content of what OP said sounds fine to me. Maybe it was the tone.

No Pension .. wow. Working until you are 76 (at least) then relying on a state pension (if it still exists)
Beans on Toast are the least of your problems … heating, lighting, other utilities, and maintenance of your house are much higher up the list.

The comment was in context and relevant to the conversation about pensions
it wasn’t a rental V buy conversion

Very very insensitive and as someone who was a long-term renter you should understand that.

Most people who rent in the UK do not do so out of choice, they do so because they cannot buy. And they KNOW it's a constant expense, as well as being precarious for many other reasons. You feel vulnerable as a renter, and you have to try to ignore that feeling to just get on with life. You also feel like a bit of a failure, even if that's not rational. What you never, ever need to hear is someone smugly talking about when their mortgage will be paid off and telling you you're in a worse situation. No shit!

I didn't want to hear that when I was a renter. Now I'm an owner I make sure to never, ever talk about how much better off I am when I'm with renters. It's just politeness, ultimately.

People who rent are utterly sick of other people pointing out, again and again and again, that they will be renting forever. I cannot tell you how often I've heard the trite phrase 'it's money down the drain!' (no, you're paying for shelter, like you pay for food. Once the food is consumed, it isn't down the drain. Once you've lived in a secure safe place for a month, it isn't down the drain. It helped you meet your needs).

It's tone deaf when you're in the privileged position to have a mortgage. I don't know why you felt the need to point out to her that you will have paid off your home in a few decades while she will still be renting because she hasn't for whatever reason 'bought' a property.

If you were bemoaning that you would always be renting, to a renter or someone with a mortgage, that's fine because it's your feelings. The way this actually went down though is really crass. I think you do owe her an apology acknowledging her feelings.

I find it always helps to think first about whether something I am going to say is going to make someone feel better or worse.

Maybe, until you’re better able to manage your tone, you could avoid telling your friends about the various ways in which you consider yourself to be making better decisions than them.

Otherwise, you may need to learn to be OK with people finding you abrasive, just as you’ve learned to be OK with not having a pension. We all have different priorities, after all.

I think the point is that you don't need to tell people what their worries are. They know!

@ThatCoolGoose Have you considered that perhaps I can't afford the monthly payments, which is why I chose to opt out? I'm a single person earning an average wage. After covering my mortgage, bills, food, gas, electric, and fuel, there's hardly anything left. Maybe if taxes were lowered, people would have more money to contribute to their pensions every month. The reality is a lot of people can’t afford to live now, let alone in 40 years.

And just to really be clear: do you think she went away happier or sadder from your conversation and thinking about how she will always have to find rent money and you won't?