Friend upset because of a comment I made about renting

[scarystories]

Last week, I caught up with a close friend and we started talking about pensions. This topic came up because I recently started a new job and chose to opt out of the private pension scheme. I've always made this choice for various reasons that I won't bore you with, it’s a personal decision that suits me. However, I completely understand why others would choose to have one. Of course, I might live until I'm 90 and end up eating beans on toast every day, who knows? But that's my issue, not anyone else's.

Anyway, I told my friend that I wasn't worried and was hopeful that my mortgage would be paid off in the next 20-30 years, so I wouldn't have to worry about that monthly expense. I mentioned that it's harder for people who rent, as that bill will always be there. This comment upset her because she rents, and she felt I was looking down on her. That was not my intention (I actually rented for 7 years before buying my house). I was only stating a fact: rent is a constant expense, whereas a mortgage eventually ends.

Was I wrong? Should I apologise?

I mean, if you were saying it as in checking your own privilege.

Like, I know I've got it easier as I've not got to pay rent. Kind of in a sympathetic but not patronising way.

I guess you should apologise as you didn't want to hurt her but clearly did.

@Vdos I wouldn't say that to her, but it's not assumptions. They enjoy traveling, going on holidays and to concerts, and so on - which is totally fine, and honestly, I've sometimes thought about why I didn't do the same. I only mentioned it because another poster suggested I was luckier than them because I’d bought a house, when in reality, it took me years of hard work, saving, and a lot of sacrifices as a single person. My friend and her partner choose not to make those sacrifices, and spend their money on other things and that's perfectly okay, but they definitely don't have a bad lifestyle or anything.

My mum never worked, rented all her life, rent was covered by benefits as she lives in a cheap area. Then in her 50s she got an inheritance, enough to buy a small flat in this cheap area, which she did. Thinking she'd be sorted for life. It took all of the inheritance to do it.

Now she's in her late 70s, struggling on state pension. House falling to bits around her as she can't afford to do anything. At least in rented all of that was covered. She would have still got benefits to cover the rent. She can't move somewhere cheaper because there is nowhere. She can't really downsize as her flat is already tiny.

I suppose the only "benefit" is that she isn't at the whim of a landlord wanting to sell up or whatever. But had that happened, the council would have housed her, they always house pensioners because imagine the uproar if pensioners were living on the streets!

So you might not be in a better position than your friend in the end.

Anyway, regardless of what you or we think, your friend was upset. Therefore it would be the kind thing to do to apologise.

@moofolk How have I outed myself? I just explained this to someone else, so I'll share what I said:

They enjoy traveling, going on holidays and to concerts, and so on - which is totally fine, and honestly, I've sometimes thought about why I didn't do the same. I only mentioned it because another poster suggested I was luckier than them because I’d bought a house, when in reality, it took me years of hard work, saving, and a lot of sacrifices as a single person. My friend and her partner choose not to make those sacrifices, and spend their money on other things and that's perfectly okay, but they definitely don't have a bad lifestyle or anything.

all the freebies freee rates pip and everything else

She gets PIP because shes a widow of a feckless loser? Pretty sure thats not how it happens, but you do you.

I don’t see that she is beating herself up about it, rather wanting to argue that her friend is wrong and has no right to feel upset by it.

Whereas the easy fix to this, if you care about the friendship, is to say, ‘oh no, of course I don’t look down on you or anyone for renting, I’m so sorry if I came across that way - I expressed myself clumsily.’

People make all sorts of different financial decisions to try to maximise security in old age, but there’s no denying that there is a particular social / class stigma about not owning property in the UK that just doesn’t exist in a lot of other countries, and it’s not unusual at all for people to have been made to feel ashamed about it over the course of their lives.

(I say this as someone who grew up outside the British class system and find this aspect of UK life saddening and perplexing - and very deeply culturally entrenched)

@DiscoBob yes that was it. I certainly wasn’t looking down on her. As others have mentioned I will probably be worse off anyway because I won’t have a pension (completely my choice)

I will apologise though because I feel guilty that I upset her.

That was very insensitive

I do think it was a bit insensitive OP, and I'm normally quite a straight talking person. It sounds a tad like (stealth) boasting. Presumably you are putting away toward a maintenance and repairs fund too, something your friend won't have to do.

@DancingLions Absolutely! I totally agree with you, and I didn't mean to suggest that I'd be in a better position than my friend (I guess that's how my friend and others in this thread interpreted it, so maybe I didn't communicate my thoughts clearly). What I meant was that I hope to have my mortgage settled by the time I retire so at least I won’t have that bill to worry about. That doesn’t mean I’ll be set for life or that I won’t have any other problems. I’m fully aware of that (hence my beans on toast comment) lol

You really didn’t think that telling her that her financial situation is going to be rough come retirement was an insensitive thing to do? She probably knows and worries about it and for you to smugly tell her you are glad that won’t happen to you probably made her want to smack you.

@Bobnobob Oh gosh. That’s not what I was trying to say. I understand that she and a few others in this thread might have interpreted it that way, but that’s definitely not what I meant. I’ll still face issues (such as expensive repairs etc), so I’m not going to be set for life either. I was just wishing I could avoid stressing over a mortgage payment, that’s it.

I’m going to apologise to her because I don’t want her to be upset. But honestly, my intentions were never bad at all.

The trouble is if you are just chatting the conversation goes off in all sorts of directions, if you are constantly trying to remember which topics you should avoid or be careful around it can get pretty tricky, so many potential pitfalls and this is apparently another. For instance children to childless people, problems with elderly parents to people who's parents died young, babies/being pregnant to those trying and failing, practically anything you can think of could upset someone, children doing well at school, going to uni, new car, posh dress, exotic holiday, you name it and it might be off limits, not even to mention, politics and religion.

And as said home ownership is not a panacea, you still have all the bills and council tax, house insurance, maintenance which gets more difficult to do yourself as you get older (and can be hugely expensive these days) certainly not a one sided discussion. I remember my dad absolutely wouldn't consider buying a house (a millstone round your neck), my mum would have loved to!

You absolutely havent done anything wrong. People get all upset over anything and everything these days.

I had a friend ask me if I had any holidays booked for next year:

"Yes we are booked for Easter to go to Kenya, you?"

Really casual in convo so no bragging or anything that could be misinterpreted....

Could see the look on her face then she went moody and changed topic.. 2 days later she was discussing it with another friend about how I was off on another exotic holiday and how do I do it....

She asked, I told her factually where I was going and she took offense because she isnt in a position to afford a long haul holiday and instead prioritises her money differently (no judgement)

Different strokes for different folks

What 'modernising'?

And renters run the risk of the house owner selling it out from under them after who knows how many years?

And if the landlord wants to get the repairs and maintenance done for the lowest possible price then they have to live with botch jobs.

Renting is not the best option

It won’t do any harm to apologise.

Neither of you are in an ideal position.

so you were actually making a point @scarystories be honest.

your social skills require some work

because it’s pretty obvious that would have upset your friend and would have been better kept in your head

@beetr00 no I wasn’t. Please read my other comment. It was in response to the poster implying I was lucky for buying a house.

Could your mum get equity release? I know it's not necessarily a good deal, but might help a bit?

I think she’s too sensitive about not owning a home.

If you can’t be honest with another adult in a friendship then something is wrong. What you have said is honest and factual that renting cost continue long after a mortgage. You didn’t say anything that the majority of the adult population aren’t aware of.

I understand that @scarystories but subconsciously that is, in fact, your mindset.

No judgement here, at all, owning your own home seems to be a goal for the vast majority of the UK tbf.

Your friend sounds very sensitive, of course you shouldn’t apologise. It’s a simple fact that renting costs never disappear. Just stating that fact doesn’t mean you’re looking down on her. Maybe she took offence at your tone?

Surely if your talking about renting into old age she won’t be working by that point and will be eligible for housing benefit of some kind