DS16 came home drunk at 5am

[Worriedsick89]

Sorry this is a ramble and probably makes no sense but I’ve had no sleep and I’m honestly shaken up. Just don’t know what to do anymore. Posting for traffic.

DS is 16. Went out last night around 8pm, said he was going to play football with a couple mates down the park. He doesn’t go out loads so I thought ok fine, bit of fresh air. Said he’d be back by 10ish.

By 11 I’m calling him – nothing. Texted – ignored. Called again about 12:30 – phone off. Kept checking out the front window like a mad woman. DP’s working away til the end of the week and he’s not even DS’s dad anyway, they don’t get on at all, DS won’t even be in the same room as him half the time. So I was on my own stressing all night. He doesn't live with us anyway.

I was this close to ringing 101 around 4:30am. Then just after 5 the front door opened and he staggered in.

He was out of it. I’ve never seen him like that. Completely gone – slurring, eyes weird, laughing at nothing, barely able to walk. He reeked of vodka and something else I couldn’t even place. Couldn’t focus on anything I was saying. He just kept going “I’m fine” then nearly falling over. I had to practically drag him upstairs, he could barely get his shoes off.

He’s been in bed all day. It’s nearly 5pm now. He’s got up a few times to throw up, looks pale as anything, sweaty, shaky, not really with it. He keeps saying he’s ok but he’s not. Not like any hangover I’ve ever seen.

As far as I know he’s never taken drugs before. Might’ve had a few drinks here and there but he’s never come home like this.

Bit of background – he’s been difficult for a long time. Got booted out of school in year 10 after refusing to go in for weeks. Was meant to do home ed but that was a total waste of time, he just refused point blank. Tried him at one of those 14+ colleges that takes early leavers, thought maybe something more hands-on would help – lasted about 3 or 4 weeks then got kicked out again for not turning up and mouthing off.

Now he’s at home 24/7. Sleeps all day, up all night online. He’s obsessed with his phone, I’ve caught him watching proper nasty porn – not just normal stuff, like violent. I blocked the adult stuff on the WiFi and he exploded. Screaming at me, throwing stuff, called me a perv, smashed his controller. Didn’t speak to me properly for days. But he found a way round it anyway, hotspotting off his phone. I just can’t keep up.

He’s angry all the time. Slams doors, shouts in my face, gets right up close like he wants to intimidate me. Punched a hole in his wardrobe.

Doesn’t have any real friends anymore, just people on Snapchat and Discord. Always hiding his phone, I don’t know who half of them are. Sleeps odd hours, eats junk, and just sort of floats through the days.

I’ve tried getting help – rang the GP last year, but he refused to go in. Tried CAMHS, he told them to piss off on the phone and hung up. Youth support won’t deal with him unless he asks for it, and he just won’t.

I’m properly starting to worry about his mental health. There’s been signs for a while but no one wants to listen unless he’s the one asking for help, and he won’t.

But this morning… this was something else. I’ve never seen him like that. He looked… like someone I didn’t know. And now today he’s still sick, still not with it. I’m honestly scared.

Would IBU to try take him to A&E?? I don’t even know if they’d do anything. And he’ll probably go mad if I try and drag him there. But what if I don’t and it gets worse?

With every further update, and I know this will be hard, I actually think you need to have him removed from the house for all your sakes. This isn’t sustainable for anyone and you can’t continue indefinitely with this level of abuse. I don’t think I’ve ever heard such vile things being said by a child to their parents. This is another level altogether and I genuinely believe he needs to be removed from the house altogether. This just isn’t normal behaviour and god knows what makes him think anyone gay or straight is ever going to want to be around him for genuine purposes. All I can ever see right now is him being abused by other people because he certainly isn’t going to find a loving life partner behaving like this. It’s truly vile and something seriously isn’t right with his thinking if he honestly believes he can live in other people’s homes talking like that. I think for the time being at least you may need to accept you’ve already lost him and focus on just getting him out of the house, be that a unit or mental health facility so that you can have some peace to recover from the years of revolting abuse you’ve been subjected to.

@Worriedsick89 have you called the GP today for an emergency appointment? You still have time to do it this morning, call as soon as you can, because you need to do something. Make sure you make a list of it all and emphasise the THC and moods which could be mania. It's better that he's on CAHMS radar and waitlist than not at all.

Then during the day either you or your ex should call TalktoFrank (useful drug helpline), maybe the NSPCC and Young Minds as well. They can also flag stuff in the system and then hopefully someone will come out soon. You need to try and make some progress even if it's just making these appointments because otherwise nothing will change. Maybe if he leaves again you can clean his room (or at least get rid of anything sharp and the wrappers). He might get mad (but he's already doing that) but he might appreciate it, even if he doesn't show it. Anyways your the parent, so don't give up on him.

By who?

There isn’t an agency who will just sweep in and remove him.

The process involved in social care “removing” a child is (rightfully) a lengthy legal process, in all. But the most serious cases of children being harmed.

The police won’t be interested, and the only illegal thing is the THC vape - they won’t remove him for that.

CAMHS won’t remove him - unless he is sectioned, which they won’t do without a lengthy process of assessment.

So who?
It’s not very helpful advice to the OP.

What do you think the police would say if OP showed them her posts on here and asked for them for help because she couldn’t cope with his behaviour anymore, was afraid of him and didn’t want him in her house anymore? Sorry madam, by who? They would invoke a whole list of outside agencies. It isn’t up to me to tell you who.

if anything your advice isn’t helpful.

And yes, if this was my son I would have removed him from my house. Just because I’m a parent doesn’t mean I have to put up with years of vile abuse in my home. But you lot just carry on giving it the old flannel about what a poor little waif he is and how he can’t possibly be responsible for his own behaviour…

@RetroViral the previous posters advice is correct, please don't comment on things you know nothing about.
He won't be considered for a mental health bed if the mental health issues are actually the effects of drug use. He's legally a child and this is his home. If the OP really, really pushed that he was too dangerous to be in her home, the only realistic option the police and social services would have would be to find him a children's home or more likely, semi independent accommodation which is basically a hostel for 16-17yr olds. Which is clearly not an outcome the OP would want, from what she's posted so far, and would likely make the whole situation ten times worse as it would feed into his narrative that everyone hates him and his actions are justified.
Children don't 'learn' from being kicked out. It doesn't work here (I've never seen it in my years in social care) There is plenty of evidence that it doesn't work in the US, where the tough love/military school/wilderness camp set up is common. It just makes some adults feel better that they've not 'put up with it' or been 'soft'. But the outcomes for the children are usually traumatic and the relationships irrevocably damaged.

Having been in a situation where the police were called to a house by parents who wanted their child “removed” I can tell you they won’t do anything.

And the police also won’t read a mumsnet thread.

Honestly, I’m not being combative- but I work with children and families like the OP’s - I know what I’m talking about.

Another long night here. He was still clearly drunk when he came downstairs not long after midnight – unsteady on his feet, slurring a bit. He stood in the doorway for a bit and then blurted out that he’d taken painkillers the other day. Said it really offhand, like it was nothing. I honestly don’t know whether to believe him – part of me thinks it might’ve just been attention-seeking, but another part of me thinks he was telling the truth. He didn’t seem like he was lying – he seemed… I don’t know, flat. Tired.

We sat down with him – me and his dad – and tried to talk to him calmly, asking why he’d taken them and what was going on in his head. He didn’t really answer, just sort of shrugged and looked away. Then he said he was going back to his room and asked me to come with him.

When I went up, he was under his duvet already and asked if I’d sit next to him. He asked for a hug. I gave him one and he just sort of sank into it for a second, then pulled away and asked, “why do you even care?” I told him because I love him and I’m worried sick about him. I tried really gently to ask where he’d been earlier, said I was scared about him being vulnerable – especially if there are older men involved or drugs. He rolled his eyes and went sarcastic, said “don’t flatter yourself, no one’s interested in me.” Then added, “everyone thinks I’m ugly and weird anyway – no one would want me even if I begged.”

I said that wasn’t true, but he cut me off and started spiralling. Said he feels disgusting, that he hates his own face and body, that when he looks in the mirror he just wants to smash it. He said he wishes he could just wake up as someone else – “someone people actually like”.

Then he called for his dad to come in the room too and repeated some of it. He said we both think he’s pathetic, that we’re only being nice because we’re scared he’ll do something. Ex said that wasn’t true and that we love him, and DS said, “well maybe I don’t want to be loved – maybe I just want to disappear.”

It was heartbreaking. Then, as quickly as it had started, he seemed to switch. Put something random on the TV and asked if I’d stay and watch it with him. So I did. He was quiet – not asleep but really still, just curled up watching. Then about half an hour later, he nodded off.

I stayed for a bit to make sure he was actually sleeping and then crept back out. I didn’t hear anything after that and I’ve just been to check on him and he’s still asleep. I worry now that he’ll wake up and deny all of it. That’s what usually happens – we have these emotional moments and then by morning it’s like it never happened, or he mocks me for “making everything dramatic”.

To the people saying the THC vapes are illegal – yes, I know. That’s what’s worrying. I had no idea you could buy something like that over the counter, even in vape shops. I don’t know what to do about it though. If I say anything, he’ll know we’ve been in his room, and I don’t know how he’ll react. I’ve suggested helping him tidy it before, as a way in, but he kicks off and says I’m treating him like a baby and trying to control him.

I’ve phoned the GP this morning and asked for an emergency appointment. They basically said they can’t give one if we’re not sure he’d turn up. They’ve booked a telephone consultation with DS for this afternoon instead – not ideal, but at least it’s something. I just hope he picks up.

If he is still asleep, can you put some food and a drink next to his bed, so he sees it when he wakes up? He sounds like he is trying to find a way back and small encouragements from you could help.

A phrase I sometimes used with my lad was "I think you have got yourself into a headspace you don't really want to be in. Would you like some help to get out of it?"

Sometimes it worked.

And, just an observation, when he starts to tell you how he feels, like feeling he is ugly etc., rather than saying "it's not true" ask him "why do you feel like that". Try to get him to talk.

So so difficult. It is positive he opened up on some levels though and I guess in those moments you see your vulnerable son rather than the aggressive young man he can be.
When my son was a school refuser, he would not engage with anything or anyone. It was really difficult because people would tell me they would make him but how do you make a grown boy do anything?
Anyway, mine was diagnosed bipolar after several suicide attempts. He was hospitalised so had to see a psych.

@Worriedsick89 You can still go to the GP yourself though even if he doesn't come. In fact that would be better, because he's unlikely to give the proper history of all the stuff, drugs, alcohol, mania, the stuff he said last night. Ask the GP for an urgent referral to see Psychiatry and Drugs and Alcohol Services for under 19s - he needs a full assesment not just low-level CBT. I doubt he'll say anything about how he clearly has low self-esteem and everything. He's what 14,15 - that means you still have the ability to see his records and talk to his doctors. Call them again and ask if you can just come, say you'll try and bring him but that you will definitely be there.

Also have you got in contact with any other agencies - you need to be reporting this stuff so at the very least it's on the system. Then when other services get involved, it will flag on the systems. Just don't give up hope one him, call the resources people have given you. Talkto Frank, YoungMinds. Okay he might not go to school but you have to try and enroll him somewhere - call the council ask to speak to the duty social worker. Make sure you make a list of everything (maybe go though all your posts, make sure you don't forget anything) and remember to really emphasises it all the THC, even if you have yo exaggerate some bits. The violence and shouting during the night. Ask for him to go to another PRU when you calm the council, ask for one specialised in mental health and behaviour. Sometimes they can be amazing, they'll come to the house and pick him up if he doesn't attend. They have smaller classes and teachers and support staff with high level of training. It will be much better than 14+ vocational college as he likely won't engage. PRU's work with lots of services social workers, and often have therapists on site. You have to take this seriously, just because he might not bother doesn't mean you don't. Call the services, you go to the GP (if they said they will call his number that's not good enough - he likely won't pick up, and even then he won't tell them anything). He's still a child, you can go in person and talk to them. Just try because he's still a child and there is still hope.

Might not help, but when my dc got into a negative spiral (not as seriously as your ds though), and very much took against me, I was advised by a mental health professional to simply ask if there was anything I could do to help. Often the answer was no, but it helped me not to react to insults or negativity. Don't deny his feelings, use any mention of them as a chance to explore them - eg can you tell me more about that. And remind yourself that he is desperately unhappy and he is verbally attacking you BECAUSE you are his safe parent.

Ignore the mess, bad behaviour etc for now and look for any chinks in his emotional armour. If you react emotionally, you are giving him ideas to hurt you with. Hard as it is the only way to be is strong and calm.

My dc was a bit of a nightmare around that age but now aged 20 is very different, much more mature.

I was advised by a mental health professional to simply ask if there was anything I could do to help. Often the answer was no, but it helped me not to react to insults or negativity.

That’s a good idea.

I think I would try acting as though it’s just common behaviour from him, not being surprised by it, just calmly asking if there was anything you can do to help like @Onelifeonly says and if he says no, just go back to your newspaper, metaphorical speaking. Be completely unfazed.

Part of him is thriving on your attention. Notice how he comes back for more even when he’s saying he doesn’t want it?

@RetroViral

What you're really saying is 'put him in care' or 'have him sectioned'. Which is basically evidence that you have zero idea of how things work for families in situations like this.

You will never just get a referral to social services because your child is being verbally abusive, staying out and taking drugs.

The most likely way the OP would get social services involvement would be to report her son to police, but the police would only act if a crime had been committed, namely if her son assaulted his parents or claimed that they had assaulted him.

Another way would be to contact the NSPCC as I did when my 14 year old was putting herself at risk of exploitation by getting into cars with random adult men. But I had proof of this, and even then, the intervention was two meetings with social services which involved them telling me to pull myself together (I did need to be told, I'd almost given up trying to parent her because her behaviour had caused me to nearly have a nervous breakdown) and a bit of input from a family support worker that I appreciated. The difficult and abusive behaviour went on for years after that with no further input from social services.

It's incredibly rare for teenagers to be put in care in situations like this when there is a parent at home, partly because there are so few foster placements that are willing and able to take on a suicidal/law breaking teen.

As for having them sectioned - that's not down to a parent. You have to get 3 health professionals to separately agree that a child needs sectioning. My son was sectioned only after he became clearly psychotic and delusional. It took 3 days in A&E while they tried to find a bed for him. A child has to be a danger to himself or to others to be sectioned under UK law and that's a pretty hard bar to clear. Many children have repeatedly self harmed and attempted repeatedly to take their own lives and still not met the threshold for sectioning.

@TheLivelyViper

Such good advice. "Just try because he's still a child and there is still hope." Yes so much to this. I have found the switch from child to adult services as my son aged out of CAMHS such a problem as adult services won't engage with me. I'm so glad he had a lot of input before he turned 18. The only thing I would say about your post is that I don't think all PRUEs have the resources they need to deal with the complex kids they're helping. My son was under a PRUE for children with emotionally based school refusal. I had to hunt this service down and approach them myself. Their entire input consisted of sending a tutor around to our house for 2 x 45 minutes a week for about a year during term time. He was a lovely guy and my son liked him, but there wasn't much else on offer in terms of mental health or lifestyle support.

@Worriedsick89

OP - this FB group is good: www.facebook.com/groups/parentingmentalhealth/

Very supportive group for parents struggling with children's mental health. No judgement, just kindness and support.

@Nasrine Yes that's true some PRUE's are amazing and others don't bother unfortunately. Some can be amazing though especially because they have so much more staff to student ratio. But it would be better to get him on roll somewhere than just doing nothing. Espeically because unless it's a mainstream which has good pastoral staff, with capacity it will likely be harder for them to offer him that much support, if he's being aggressive etc. Not sure how the other school was just allowing or accepting him leaving school mid-day without at least getting in contact with other services. Sorry your son's school didn't have any other services for mental health. Some PRUE's do train staff well, especially if it's issues with behaviour that have led to previous expulsion they can often be much more equipped than mainstream but it depends on each one and funding etc.

OP regarding the THC vapes, he won't have bought it from a vape shop (at least not legally or officially). But they are incredibly easy to get. I used to be friends with a girl who bought them all the time off pages on Instagram that sell THC vapes, edibles, gummies etc. Quite openly selling and advertising them too , the page she used always claimed they were imported directly from California so were safe and "legit", however who knows whats in them and the damage they couod cause. But they are incredibly easily to buy I was so surprised. Its as easy as contacting these pages via Instagram and it usually gets directed to WhatsApp to complete the order and get it posted to your house, its easy then to keep repurchasing. Also friends or a dealer could have sold it to him, they look like regular vapes with no particular scent so they blend in with the rest and are often used openly with people around being none the wiser

It sounds a bit like you're acknowledging and understanding that he wants attention, but deciding because he's trying to get negative emotional feedback/attention that you should give him absolutely nothing. Not sure if that's your angle, it just came across that way.

He sounds so much like some of the boys I looked after in residential care homes. Really, the approach it sounds like you suggested should be the opposite... I agree with ignoring the behaviour, but also proactively upping opportunities to engage in positive attention.

A fair few of the residential care homes I've worked in have pool tables, or table football. A games room. Chess. At the very least, uno! Alongside activities at weekend and sometimes through the week. Anything to build positive rapport and experiences with their adult caregivers, where they're getting positive attention, self esteem, social skills modelling, etc. I've seen it first hand - this stuff works. The staff I've worked with that love restricting activities and punishing by removing opportunities for positive relationship building are the ones who have the most negative incidents.

You can ignore the behaviour, but not doing anything proactively positive ignores the whole child.

If OPs son needs intervention, it should start with a therapeutic approach. Firm, clear and pre established boundaries that are held unemotionally, alongside role modelling positive things... Just making the home somewhere that has strong role models clearly enjoying each others company and engaging with each other in a positive way (not just sat on the sofa on their phones or drinking) is a big part of what good children's residential homes do.

No, not at all! I completely agree with you. The method I was trying to get across is the classic “ignore bad behaviour, praise good behaviour” but granted I did it clumsily by missing out that part! 😬

Bet he’s been doing those balloon things.

Just a quick update – thanks to the poster who suggested leaving food or drink by his bed. I left him some water this morning and didn’t hear a peep until nearly 2pm. He must’ve needed the sleep.

When he finally came down, he looked groggy but not aggressive at first. I tried gently bringing up some of the things he said last night – just said I wanted to check in and that I’d been really worried. He just kind of shrugged and said, “I don’t remember saying that,” then added, “anyway, I was drunk – who even cares?”

I told him I cared, and that I’d called the GP this morning and they’d booked a phone appointment for this afternoon. That’s when he completely kicked off – full shouting, swearing, saying I was trying to get rid of him, that I “want them to section him so I can live happily ever after with that fat wanker.” Then he said maybe he’d just leave himself and slammed his water bottle across the kitchen.

When his dad told him he wasn’t going anywhere until he calmed down, DS shoved him.

Ex stayed calm and asked if he wanted to go for a walk to clear his head. DS rolled his eyes and said, “Why? You think I’m a dog now?”

Then he suggested going to the cinema. At first DS lost it again, saying I just wanted him out of the house so my partner could come over (he usually does on Fridays). I told him he wasn’t coming. DS said, “You’re lying – you always say that and then he turns up anyway.” I told him no, seriously, I was focusing on him tonight.

He responded with, “Oh, so now it’s my fault you can’t get a shag? That’s nice.” I said no, I was putting him first, and he said, “You don’t need to – [DP] doesn’t even like you. He just doesn’t come round because you’re the problem. He probably only talks to you out of pity.”

Then he said he actually wanted to see DP. I don’t know if it was genuine or just a power move, but I just said, “Let’s talk about that another time.”

In the end, he did agree to go out with his dad. I think partly just to prove he could. Ex has messaged to say they’re in Nando’s (DS’s idea apparently) and that he seems calm now.

While they’ve been out I’ve tidied his room properly – brought all the washing down, changed the bedding, picked up all the rubbish and cleared the weird stuff from under the bed. I’m hoping he doesn’t kick off about it when he gets back, but maybe it’ll help him feel a bit more settled.

We’ll see.

You’re doing brilliantly, OP. One foot in front of the other.

That’s great he’s gone out with his dad. Also good for you to get a bit of a break. I hope he is calm when he returns x

Been reading since you first posted.

Nothing to add in terms of advice.

You are doing amazing OP. Really really amazing.