AIBU to agree with Diane Abbott

[Elephantiner]

I cannot stand Diane Abbott, she has a lazy, patronising manner which riles me, but she has said that people visiblybof a different race (e.g. black people) experience a different sort of racism than those who’s race is not visually obvious (travellers, Jewish people etc). She has a point, doesn’t she? Am I missing something here?

Obviously all types of racism are utterly abhorrent.

I'm Irish. I have an English accent. I hear and experience racism all the time. But she's correct. How I experience it makes me very angry, but it is experienced differently than bigotry based on skin colour. It isn't a race to the bottom, or to the "top". Racism is racism. We experience it differently, but it is disgusting we experience it at all. Isn't that the point? It is 2025 and we still propagate hate and bigotry based on difference rather than focus on our similarities- we are all humans.

Your third paragraph is verging into victim blaming.

I do think actually there is a hierarchy of racism and I think black and maybe Asian Muslim men probably face the most discrimination.

I am not keen on the distinction between racism and prejudice. If someone white British converts to Judaism and then faces hostility or discrimination for it it's fine to call it racism. It's an irrelevant semantic point.

And I actually think what on earth was she thinking when she said that in pre civil rights Jews didn't have to sit at the back of the bus unlike blacks. Of course they didn't but then has she forgotten what Jews faced in nazi Germany?

Agreed.

Her parents were a welder and a nurse. She got into Cambridge as a black working class girl in the early 70s. She became the first black woman MP in the history of the UK. She’s beaten odds and achieved stuff that the vast majority of her detractors can’t even imagine.

No that's not the point. She said that what you experience isn't racism at all, and when 6m Jews were murdered in the 1940s that was merely prejudice rather than racism too, and she implies is wasn't as significant as black people being told to sit at the back of the bus in the US in the 1950s.

She worded it poorly, but she is correct.

I think she raises an interesting point, are racism /prejudice /bigotry exactly the same, or are they different things? Its good to have these kinds of conversations, we don't all need to froth in rage, or fall over in horror! She certainly should never have been suspended from the Labour Party (twice now!) I think Starmer hates her because shes always been close to Corbyn. And the media hate her because she's a strong straight talking black woman.

She commented about travellers too, has anyone pulled her up on that?

Diane Abbot's opinion minimises other peoples' experience of prejudice and racism. This very dangerous, divisive and not helpful in the long run. Her arrogance and obstinance means she has doubled down on her theory and has not managed to accept that she has offended many.
The Labour Party was correct in suspending her. Diane Abbot, in a strange way, is encouraging divisiveness and negativity.

Abbot is very likely going to retire at the next election anyway, so she doesn’t care whether she has the Labour whip or not. She can now say what she really thinks without having to worry about deselection. I disagree with her about many things, including many of her views on race, but she has earned the right to do that.

I agree with her.

I'm white so don't think I have a right to say. But it's surface level instant racism.

If you put a traveler in a horse and trap I'd argue the hatred and ability to voice that without fear of anyone pulling you up isn't the same as it for black people. You'd be ripped apart for insulting a black person on FB.

You wouldn't for a traveler. However I doubt Diana has ever met a traveler so she can't relate.

She probably has no idea about Islamaphobia or being Irish during the IRA in England. She no doubt at all understands racism. But she can not talk for or relate to eg travelers.

I think it's very helpful to have discussions about different types of racism actually, and she's absolutely correct in what she's saying.

She doesn't think there are different types of racism. She thinks that Jewish people and travellers do not ever experience racism.

The racism of low expectations is disturbing to see. She is highly intelligent, experienced and savvy. She has experienced racism. She has been feted because of her race. To think she can't be expected to see racism and bigotry against other groups, particularly those with such a long experience of racism like Jews and travellers is unforgivable.

She absolutely didn't say that though. She said it is different. And it is.

I agree with her. I have seen black people receive worse treatment than white people before they have even opened their mouths.

She did.

The abuse visibly Muslim people got after 9/11 and 7/7 was awful. Nobody cared though.

Sikhs were murdered after 9/11. Because they were mistaken for Muslims.

Yep. Awful. Nobody innocent should have been targeted like this after those attacks. There was very little coverage in the media and people just suffered in silence with attacks or ‘joke’ or jibes from people for years afterwards.

Yes it’s sad to see. Politically she’s made headway but minimising other people’s experience of racism / antisemitism is not the way to go.

And?