AIBU to agree with Diane Abbott

[Elephantiner]

I cannot stand Diane Abbott, she has a lazy, patronising manner which riles me, but she has said that people visiblybof a different race (e.g. black people) experience a different sort of racism than those who’s race is not visually obvious (travellers, Jewish people etc). She has a point, doesn’t she? Am I missing something here?

Obviously all types of racism are utterly abhorrent.

Asian people? Hasidic Jews? They’re instantly recognisable too.
She could have worded this much better.

Great. And why do Jewish people need to be on the receiving end of her comments?

None of that means she can't be wrong about this.

Of course she’s correct its a no brainer.

THIS

And her suspension and accusations of being ‘antisemitic’ are a symptom of a party with no values and beliefs, who are terrified of Reform .
The fucking state of British politics right now, the choice between
Reform, a bunch of spivs, cranks and a few genuine racists, who fantasises about being the poodle of President Trump.
Conservatives, led by Kemi who thinks if she’s more far right than the Spivs , people will forget the last ten years of Tories destroying this country.
And last and least we have Starmer, the toolmakers son, who is a classic lawyer, a morally empty vessel who will do whatever it takes to win.
I despair.
No, Diane wasn’t wrong, and it’s not antisemitic to say Jews experience a different form of prejudice, Jewish people aren’t a race, when I see Harrison Ford, I don’t think Jew, when I see Diane I see black.
Its fucking ridiculous.

I would hope you wouldn’t get started on Gaza while discussing racism experienced by Jewish people. It would suggest you’re not able to make a distinction between Israelis (and not even all Israelis, just the ones that support Netanyahu which not all Israelis do), and Jewish people more broadly. Which, yes, would indicate that you are deeply antisemitic, and also not that bright.

Blimey. If only all Jewish people had been treated like Harrison Ford. Rather than persecution.

They're not. And I remind you she's spent a lifetime fighting prejudice in London, prejudice against Jews and all minorities.

You can remind all you like but she’s be better off not minimising antisemitism since she doesn’t know how others have felt.

Well yes, they exist. I'm not sure what your point is though.

I'd also argue an orthodox Jew by default would wear at least some clothing relating to their faith. Else how could one identify them as orthodox?

The problem is the way she has worded this. It comes across as ‘black people have it worse’ when she could have said that those with obvious differences do. She hasn’t mentioned Asian people at all. What about people who are clearly Muslim after 9/11 and 7/7? We have a large Hasidic population near me, what about them? You can’t hide your Jewish faith if you’re wearing the garb.

She has a point about instant racism/prejudice, but she hasn’t expressed it very well at all. It’s very badly worded and has sounds like a competition (not a competition, that’s me badly wording things, but I’m tired and I can’t think of the phrase I mean).

She has mentioned black people because she is black, no?

Yes of course, that’s very obvious, but the way she has written it doesn’t take into account others who also suffer the same instant prejudice. For example, she mentions Jews, but some branches of Orthodox Jews are instantly recognisable as being Jewish. I get what she is saying, but it’s not worded well, that’s my point.

Yes, possibly. But I discern her meaning.

Yes, as I said, so do I. But people will be up in arms about this due to that, and thus they are. Labour has a history of antisemitism. That antisemitism accusations was under a microscope during Corbyn (even though there are now receipts to prove he isn’t and wasn’t antisemitic) but she was of that era. It doesn’t surprise me given the wording of her letter that people are making conclusions.

All I have said is that she has worded it badly and hasn’t taken into consideration others who also suffer the same instant prejudice, including some of the groups she has vehemently said don’t.

The question of whether Judaism is a religion or a race or both is a complex one, but how you see Harrison Ford is completely irrelevant to deciding it. Judaism is traditionally considered, by Jews, to be passed through the mother, so there is a biological element to it, it’s not just about religious belief.

Is it that she’s worded it badly, or is it because she thinks black people experience more and/or worse racism than Jewish and Irish traveller people? As someone said above, she’s an intelligent, driven women who’s overcome barriers to achieve a position of influence and power. So why don’t we do her the credit of saying that what she chose to write (and double down on) does actually represent what she thinks, rather than that ‘she worded it badly’? I think she worded it exactly as she meant to word it, and that’s why she’s defending it, and why others are criticising her for it

She thinks black people are easily identifiable and therefore easily discriminated against.

I don’t know how anyone can read the second paragraph of her letter and not see a red flag she’s is a well educated woman so the minimising is deliberate. The ignoring of the very obvious example of the holocaust without even getting into the Jewish experience in USA in that time period.
jewish schools have security patrols and I’m currently writing this from a lay-by with swastika grafitti, quite the red head experience for me.

Iike and admire Diane Abbot

This 100pc

"Her parents were a welder and a nurse. She got into Cambridge as a black working class girl in the early 70s. She became the first black woman MP in the history of the UK. She’s beaten odds and achieved stuff that the vast majority of her detractors can’t even imagine."

That'a given but she is very obviously maximising racism experienced by black people in the UK conflating it with how blackpeople in America were treated historically while minimising racism experienced by other races such as Jews and travellers, dismissing their appalling experiences/ treatment as merely prejudice, purely on the basis they can pass as white.

Isn't that in itself racist?

Because suggesting that no one can ever tell if you’re Jewish or a traveller is either ignorant or badly worded. Considering she is so highly educated, I am assuming it’s the latter.

That letter comes across as though she is specifically saying black people endure worse that others based upon instant prejudice - yet other groups do suffer from instant prejudice. She can speak on behalf of her own experiences, but to suggest that others don’t suffer from instant prejudice is utterly ridiculous.

I listened to the interview. She makes things up as she goes along. Of course Jewish people are mostly visibly Jewish. We have a large Jewish community in the North, and it is absolutely obvious on most occasions. Racism is racism. Fed up of people of colour thinking they have a monopoly of the label. It really was shocking hearing the rubbish coming out of Abbot’s mouth.

You can put her on a pedestal all you like- just don't expect the rest of us to. She's fallible, just like anybody else.