Trans hate (I don't) and the same old, same old

[RetiringRita]

Well I've been on a few threads this weekend and the one that's been hijacked yet again was the question of trans hate on mumsnet.
The OP asked for opinions on whether that was a fair statement yet within minutes the question was ignored and the same FWR posters were out in force. They didn't want to answer the question so targeted their posts to state their agenda.

Sex as defined by The Surpreme Court ruling
TW perverts in women's prisons
TW perverts in female loos
Men in dresses
FTM having ASD or mental illness.

It appears those of us who sit on the fence are not entitled to be there. Those who cannot be bullied get shouted down.

I have been called the following :

Hand Maiden
Trans Ally
Not part of the sisterhood
Delusional
Captured
Shameful
Mentally ill
A liar (frequently)
A man

None apply to me.

Am I being unreasonable to ask for some understanding and compassion for trans people who don't fit the stereotypes listed?

‘Hundreds of articles’ 😂.

What’s the difference between a man pretending to be a woman and a man pretending to be a man pretending to be a woman anyway?

Why not!?! What is the big issue?

I’m often in Brighton and I’ve never encountered this but I do find people in Brighton to much nicer than in London

People also say men can become women. Some people are just silly.

If more TW had compassion and understanding for women, I might get on board. But most don't, sadly, and only see the world through their own lens.

Would those female posters who are comfortable sharing toilets with men also be comfortable sharing a prison with men

Who are you to direct people to campaign and discuss issues that you want them to though? If people wish to discuss the issue, surely that is their perogative without you needing to judge them?

"The likelyhood that man will claim to be trans to get into a women's bathroom to assault a female has got to be the most stupid, overused argument I have ever heard!"

Male people will seek access to female single sex spaces for many reasons. Being assaulted or not is not the only aspect of this. Abuse can happen without any physical contact at all. And don't let's forget the aspect of privacy and dignity.

Can you please tell us why any male person above about the age of 8 years old, regardless of the philosophical belief about their identity, should have access to a space that is needed for female people to remain female people only?

Do you know any?

Here’s a fact, only men can be trans women. Therefore, they aren’t women and have no right to appropriate our spaces.

Tell you what OP, why don’t you post a link to all the messages you have posted on pro-trans forums where you scold TRAs for their goading, trolling, threats of violence on SM, actual violence at time.

Maybe you have posted that women have a point, that you cannot change your biological sex, and that it’s understandable that they might not want to share safe spaces with people who might just be crazed sex offenders who are insisting they are women.

Have you ever done that OP? Have you? If so then we might be a bit more receptive to your scolding on Mumsnet.

It appears those of us who sit on the fence are not entitled to be there. Those who cannot be bullied get shouted down.

This is so true, definitely the loudest on mn are the people who only seem to be here to bash trans people.

But most don't, sadly, and only see the world through their own lens.

Negative sweeping generalisation about trans women. This is specifically against mumsnet guidelines. I read them two days ago. Please rethink posting stuff like this it’s not ok.

Bullet 3 www.mumsnet.com/i/trans-rights-moderation-policy

Why not what? Why don't female people wish to encounter any male person above the age of a child in a female single sex space? Is that what you want to know?

Of course they’re being perfectly nice. They’re getting to do what ever the fuck they want.

The issues come when women dare to say “no” to men.

I disagree. I was on a forum and my bekind naiveté was challenged. Now, I speak my truth as kindly as I can. I see it all clearly now.

I don't enjoy any part of people feeling hurt or bullied at all.

The reality is that the whole ideology now threatens me directly and my personal values, my experience, my reality even and has this political element really influenced me? Yes of course. It's all true and valid.
.
I am someone who has historically experienced really shit behaviour, emotional abuse and a denial of my reality as part of a dysfunctional family system.

How might it be for me having to now deny reality again with the insistence that I have to face saying men are women and I need to call a man a bloody woman?

What about my experience in hospital with various illnesses having a man with a dick next to me. But his dress and personal declaration of womanhood was enough to be there in my vulnerable space. That bloke may be kind and gentle. The fact they insist on lying there with their dick in a bed next to me says they don't care about me or the experience of my fellow women.

So I have not even touched on the much more damaging and dangerous issues associated with this.

Am I going to be ' mean' to someone for the sake of seeking joy; absolutely not. Am I going to say - I don't want this forced on me and having to deny reality even in the language I have spent my entire life using? No! Bugger off.

Where is the compassion for me in this?

I don't post on pro trans forums. I am not a trans ally in fact I've been called a TERF.

A TERF who censors women…

That must have been incredibly distressing.

This isn’t a fairy story. It happened.

This sex offending transwoman sexually assaulted a 10 year old and a 12 year old, in supermarket toilets. Then breached his bail by moving to Leeds and changing name to hide in a women’s shelter with young children present for 10 weeks last summer before being rumbled and hauled back to Scotland. Where he beat a fellow inmate in the men’s prison so got moved to a women’s prison to terrorise more women.

He calls himself Katie. You can look him up.

Just as there’s no way of knowing which men are decent and which aren’t, there’s no way of knowing which trans identifying man is a sweetheart and which is Katie D.

So for safeguarding we exclude them all.

Thinking this is ‘mean’ or ‘vitriol’ - hell no. We are keeping receipts of the violence some transwomen have perpetrated against women and girls because we were told “this never happens” and we shouldn’t worry our pretty little heads while being asked to budge up and let a subsection of men use our spaces.

It did happen, it does happen, and women are not human shields for men uncomfortable with their own bodies. To paraphrase Susan B Anthony: Trans, their rights and nothing more. Women, our rights and nothing less.

I have trans people in my life that I care very much about. But if they tried to access spaces set up to exclude them for safety, dignity and privacy, they’d be very much in the wrong.

Disagreeing with you is not “censoring women” my dear.

So what law are you thinking of launching a legal challenge against?

Im interested in hearing this too

Fear of violence isn't the only reason to not want biological men in women's spaces. I have the right to have dignity and privacy in intimate situations such as toilets.
I don't want any man there, no matter how nice he is.

The issues come when women dare to say “no”

Isnt life about how you say no? On mn the pushy shouty women who start fights- I hate meeting them in real life - my rights, our rights they shout, when actually people are just trying to get by with very different problems and don’t totally care.

I had a women come to the house who was running for local election who started by ranting about women’s rights, women’s spaces and trans issues. I just stood there in shock (also now am thinking I don’t think I’ve seen a trans person in our town!!)

When she asked did I have questions I said well what about the rumours that the local hospital is downgrading services? My son needs those services. She actually started again so then I said ‘what about the gangs that hang out in the park? Or the increase in homelessness? Or the businesses closing down?’ She glared at me. Dh thanked her and took a leaflet and said after ‘Jesus don’t anger those sorts of lunatics, they are just totally tunnel visioned’ and it actually reminded me of pockets of mn.

You were calling posters Thick As Mince on the previous thread, so claiming the insults came from gender critical women is a bit rich.