Trans hate (I don't) and the same old, same old

[RetiringRita]

Well I've been on a few threads this weekend and the one that's been hijacked yet again was the question of trans hate on mumsnet.
The OP asked for opinions on whether that was a fair statement yet within minutes the question was ignored and the same FWR posters were out in force. They didn't want to answer the question so targeted their posts to state their agenda.

Sex as defined by The Surpreme Court ruling
TW perverts in women's prisons
TW perverts in female loos
Men in dresses
FTM having ASD or mental illness.

It appears those of us who sit on the fence are not entitled to be there. Those who cannot be bullied get shouted down.

I have been called the following :

Hand Maiden
Trans Ally
Not part of the sisterhood
Delusional
Captured
Shameful
Mentally ill
A liar (frequently)
A man

None apply to me.

Am I being unreasonable to ask for some understanding and compassion for trans people who don't fit the stereotypes listed?

Nope. Why don’t you just read my posts.

Tell that to Katie Dolatowski's pre-teen victims.

Complete nonsense and of course you’re off now before you are asked to back it up 😂 night @Tangfastic71

Would you like me to re-quote your post where you claimed that trans women are female?

Extraordinary claims demand the evidence to back them up though. Someone making the claim that men are women needs to solidly evidence that.

It failed at the Supreme Court in a very expensive case where presumably the gender side threw everything they had at it, which suggests the threshold for evidence cannot be met.

Yes please

It's untrue to claim that the phrase

"The definition of a woman is "Needing to be a woman and recognised / accepted as such woman" "
is not circular.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circular_definition

Ah, you in fact said "trans women know they are female".

Does this mean you believe they are female, or that you believe it is possible for them to know they are female and you to know they are male at the same time?

You can move in whenever you want. Some people are dangerous and that’s shit. But my chance of being attacked by a man is the same as yours, and Im having a nice time

18 month old children can recognise men and women , boys and girls. They don’t have some grand narrative about what a woman is- they just know one when they see one.

The cognition of being trans is a visceral, powerful, pervasive seeing / recognising/ understanding oneself and needing to be seen / recognised / understood by others as female, despite chromosomes/ genitals/ social rearing etc.

Uh - she also needs to accept that what they mean by "woman" is the same as what they mean by "woman", otherwise all they have is a coincidence of name.

Words are, you see, supposed to mean things. Ideally with fairly consistent meanings between people. Otherwise they don't really mean anything, do they? Cetainly not enough to prove anything, and cetainly not enough to de-exist female people socially and if some have their way even legally based on a mere coincidence of label.

Ah, like these 'impolite responses'?

We know. Women say no and men call for their deaths.

It's no surprise

Ffs! Are you willfully not reading it. Sorry, trying very hard to be polite. I’m not saying that out of a group of 50 trans women and 50 trans men there would be more perpetrators among the men (although I wholly believe that to be true). I’m saying exactly what you’re saying! That just because of the pure numbers of cis men we are in far more danger from them than we are from trans women. And yet all this energy spent on trans women when there are 27 (too many but still a tiny number) convicted trans rapists. And 68000 cis related annual sex crimes. Ok?

It’s literally nothing like that, because “trans women” are men. There is no justification for using homophobic slurs ever and I haven’t used any slurs at all. The circles you move in sound rather abusive tbh. You aren’t particularly well informed about what women here actually think or what this is about, you sound like you’re just going along with it because you see it as edgy and subversive. Like many “allies”. It’s a thoroughly misogynistic movement though, have no doubt about that.

So do dogs. Toddlers and dogs are probably both transphobic.

Ah, you in fact said "trans women know they are female".

correct.

Darling, I can say with confidence that you are dimmer than me on any metric

actually, editing, I shouldn’t have said this. But it is ‘just the truth’

I acknowledge that you think that and wanted to tell me. That has nothing to do with the fact that you posted a falsehood when you said "that's not circular". It is.

And an 18 month old would accurately recognise a trans woman as a man.

Only trans women feel this powerful need to be seen as women. This emotion would be at best redundant in actual women.

Er, no 😂 I can say with confidence that isn’t the case, but nice try

What is a simple truth, Tandora?

That a male person can make a statement that is not possibly true about them experiencing life as a female person?

The world should not be changed to fit the narratives in a male person's head just because they say something is true. Just because a male person says 'this is what a female experiences, because I am female', there is absolutely no evidence that what that male person is experiences is what a female person experiences. Whereas, a female person can say 'I have experienced this, this is an experience that a female person can experience'.

You can keep denying this Tandora. You have not once provided any evidence of any biological or neurological markers that can reliably be used to diagnose all people with transgender identities. You denying material reality doesn't mean that material reality will cease to exist and will not abide.

I do take the world as it is.

The reality is that a male person with a transgender identity holds a conceptual belief about what female people experience and how they live and they make their statement about identity based on this. Material reality means that they are only identifying as their concept of what a female person experiences and how a female person lives.

Please explain to me in detail where this is false?

And for @Tangfastic71 , I understood that you have dismissed the numbers as being very small. I keep repeating to you that this is not how robust safeguarding works. Just because YOU believe the numbers are dismissable, robust safeguarding should mean that ALL male people are included in safeguarding protocols. I can keep repeating it.

And I can keep repeating the question about how many female people should be harmed before you stop trying to shame and redirect women's discussions aways from excluding ALL male people in the UK from female single sex spaces? You keep dismissing all the other sex crimes that this group of male people have committed and you double down on rapes. Why? I asked this before and you ignored it.

Female people deserve safety from ALL male pattern crimes committed by male people. This means for robust safeguarding, ALL male people need to be excluded. Regardless of how they identify.

Female people also deserve privacy and dignity away from all male people. This is not dependent on the number of rapes. This is for a very wide range of reasons.

You have produced any evidence to support your statements despite twisting facts to suit your own point of view. Please stop telling women that they should be focusing where you believe they should be focusing their attention. It is just fucking offensive.

If that were true I would have expected some higher quality posts from you

I admire that confidence.