Trans hate (I don't) and the same old, same old

[RetiringRita]

Well I've been on a few threads this weekend and the one that's been hijacked yet again was the question of trans hate on mumsnet.
The OP asked for opinions on whether that was a fair statement yet within minutes the question was ignored and the same FWR posters were out in force. They didn't want to answer the question so targeted their posts to state their agenda.

Sex as defined by The Surpreme Court ruling
TW perverts in women's prisons
TW perverts in female loos
Men in dresses
FTM having ASD or mental illness.

It appears those of us who sit on the fence are not entitled to be there. Those who cannot be bullied get shouted down.

I have been called the following :

Hand Maiden
Trans Ally
Not part of the sisterhood
Delusional
Captured
Shameful
Mentally ill
A liar (frequently)
A man

None apply to me.

Am I being unreasonable to ask for some understanding and compassion for trans people who don't fit the stereotypes listed?

OP what particular forms would you like "compassion and understanding" to take?

If I say "Well I'm sorry for you it must be so difficult to feel as you do" is that enough?

Is there something wrong with saying "Well I'm sorry for you it must be so difficult to feel as you do, but I'm afraid your biological sex is unchanged so you cannot access women's single sex spaces nor compete against Women in sport"?

Can anyone give any examples of hate towards trans people? There’s so much of it according to plopper posters it surely must be easy to copy and paste.

It's supposedly an opportunity to educate people who don't want to go on FWR.

I don’t think perverts when I think about trans people.
Mental illness.. Hmmm, to a degree. I think a lot of trans especially the younger generations might have A need to fit in somewhere/ body dysmorphia.
Men in dresses .. Yes, especially before surgery. That is a fact, wanting to be something else doesn’t make it so.
I am of the opinion that trans women are more at risk in a men’s toilet if they are dressed as a woman. I think a third space is the way forward.
In the meantime I will not feel bad for wanting toilets/rape crisis groups/changing rooms to be a space for women only.
I also can’t stand the phrase Cis woman, I am a woman end off.
The best thing trans people can do now is protest for the rights of a third space.

I don't understand how someone is trans. A man, who says he is a woman, at what point does the change happen? When he says the words? When he has the first thoughts? If he was always trans, how did he father a child (if he has done so)

I want to understand but no one will explain it to me.

Could OP try, please?

What are you bringing to the table, OP?

The women on the FWR boards campaign for what they believe in. They fundraise, contact their MPs, help each other fight against an ideology that gets us fired, ostracised and threatened.

We care about our kids. We want them to learn to love themselves as they are, and not to believe they need to alter their bodies or stunt their development to be their true selves.

Agree with you entirely.
No men in women's sport (and I say that as a former England record holder).
No sharing of female spaces.
Two sexes only. That's my cards on the table.

I also agree this is a male movement. If you talk to ftm their friendship group will be mainly males.
My issue is the venom and stereotypes.
I grew up with old school transsexuals. I think you'll find this violence against women is not in their name.

Are you supportive of men being put in womens Prisons?

Are you supportive of men competing in womens sports?

Are you supportive of men being allowed to attend female only rape support groups?

If it’s so visceral have a bash at evidencing it. Shouldn’t be hard. All this obsessive hate (that you can’t define).

It’s so fucking boring.

Was the thread you refer to the one that quickly reached 1000 posts with the title about "Excessive" hate? I didn't have time to join in with that one but I was curious to understand the OP because the use of the word "excessive" does imply that there is some level of hatred that is sufficiently moderate and restrained to be acceptable and non-excessive. I would say that there is no acceptable level of hatred for trans people, hatred is wrong. It is not hatred to assert women's rights to single-sex spaces, facilities and opportunities and to hold the line that it is impossible for a male person to identify into the female category, with it being completely irrelevant how well that individual "passes", or if they have any criminal intent or is entirely benign and safe, or whether they have a diagnosis of a mental illness linked to their desire to access the female category. Would you disagree with this @RetiringRita ? If so, please could you explain why?

I totally support trans people having the same rights as everyone else (which they do). I’m not afraid of trans people

I also recognise the need for women to have women only spaces - without men - however they present.

i don’t believe that’s transphobia

do you think demanding access to women only spaces is reasonable? Kind? Anti women?

My issue is the venom and stereotypes

What "venom"? You list things you have been called in your opening post but I certainly wouldn't describe any of those as Venomous!

You sound fairly sensible OP- men stay where they belong and don’t invade women’s spaces. Protect children from life altering medication.

Compassion and empathy for all.

Sounds good to me.

I won’t be kind to men who try and invade spaces knowing women will be uncomfortable.
I won’t be kind to the bloke that shopped for women’s in my town, posting photos of his boner on his Insta (TikTok?).

That’s ok, I assume? Not trans hate?

So you're happy with the results of the supreme court judgement that means that men will have to stay out of female spaces but you would still call the women of For Women Scotland who brought the case venomous and hateful

Actually I'm am thinking of funding a legal challenge.
I am a long time feminist who brought a landmark case for maternity rights.
It cost me a miscarriage and a great deal of heartache. It took my career twenty years to recover. My barrister told me I am often quoted.
I actually listen to both sides of the argument as was my training. But I have a trans family member and they are not any of the things that get levelled at them.

OP you are NOT being unreasonable!!

But this will go the same way it always does.

I've never said that.

True!!

I thought all the posters on FWR were venomous and hateful

So the OP wants the same things as the majority of posters on FWR (and the wider population), so what’s the problem? What’s venomous?

Fact, reason, evidence usually wins over shite unevidenced statements and hyperbole, yes. You should know this by now.

No and I'm sure the poster isn't supportive either.

So you don't support men in womens prisons (that good) but women calling out the problem with men in womens prisons are hateful

lol . If only that were true. certainly not the case on FWR or any trans or adjacent thread on mumsnet!

(and of course if that were true Trump would be the president and people wouldn’t be predicting reform as our next gov! Etc )

I don't really follow, OP.

Do you think we should be able to legally distinguish male humans from female humans?