Trans hate (I don't) and the same old, same old

[RetiringRita]

Well I've been on a few threads this weekend and the one that's been hijacked yet again was the question of trans hate on mumsnet.
The OP asked for opinions on whether that was a fair statement yet within minutes the question was ignored and the same FWR posters were out in force. They didn't want to answer the question so targeted their posts to state their agenda.

Sex as defined by The Surpreme Court ruling
TW perverts in women's prisons
TW perverts in female loos
Men in dresses
FTM having ASD or mental illness.

It appears those of us who sit on the fence are not entitled to be there. Those who cannot be bullied get shouted down.

I have been called the following :

Hand Maiden
Trans Ally
Not part of the sisterhood
Delusional
Captured
Shameful
Mentally ill
A liar (frequently)
A man

None apply to me.

Am I being unreasonable to ask for some understanding and compassion for trans people who don't fit the stereotypes listed?

@RetiringRita is it because you have a trans identifying relative that you are asking for compassion?

My take is that I will treat individuals as a person first. So, the young man wearing a dress and talking softly in my workplace will get a hello from me. He seems nice enough. But then he doesn’t use the female toilets.

My daughter has a couple of trans friends, one just gets on with it, the other is a TRA. They are nice kids. I have sympathy for the TRA as he’s fairly young and has been groomed online. I still treat him like I treat my daughter’s other mates. I don’t use his preferred pronouns though, but the issue hasn’t come up in front of him ie he’s there and why would I use anything but you.

For me, I don’t have compassion for the ideology, the movement nor the TRAs whose hatred of women is there for all to see. Just like other people (mostly men) who push boundaries, I don’t have compassion for men who think they are entitled to go into women’s spaces and sports.

Logic is an interesting term for it.

Age? What do you mean by that? There's no way of knowing exactly when someone was born, because each millisecond can be split into a thousand billiseconds.

Age is whatever you feel as there's no way of objectively measuring it.

...........because in order to answer it I first have to accept your definition/ understanding of adult human female?

It's everyone's definition though. There is only one word for it.

What's your problem with saying WOMAN, Tandora?

Three hundred plus years of Feminism wants to know where this magic secret button to change how the world sees you is. Because fuck me if all along there was a magic button that would have let me opt out of the sexism, marginalisation and objectification that came along with this body than I for one would very much like to push it!

And yet, none of the experiences of a group of male people with the philosophical belief about their identity means that they should be included in any female single sex provision where female people need this provision to remain for female people only.

Just because they have an experience that they believe entitles them to access these provisions, doesn't mean that they should be accessing these provisions.

Immobile gametes? You're honestly saying that when someone walks around, their gametes leave their body and stay on the floor?

That might be YOUR reality but not mine, where people are kind and don't hatefully step on each other's immobile gametes.

I’ve cut and pasted your post below because you keep editing your posts quite quickly after posting and it could get confusing.

So you don’t know how or why some men feel that they are really women.

So you can’t definitively say that my statement below is incorrect. You don’t know where it comes from or why it happens so I could be right - you can’t say either way. There is no proof.

They create their ‘identity’ based on assumptions and observations of women.

Your post.
Why do people keep asking “how”? The “how” and “why” can’t always be answered. Maybe someday we will have those answers.
How are some people autistic? How are some people gay? How does the sun rise in the east? How does time always move forward and never backward? I can’t answer these things, I just know them to be true.
How to some people end up knowing/ understanding themselves to be women/ female, despite not having the right chromosomes or genitals, or social rearing? We don’t exactly know: there’s likely a role for a complex variety of genetic and hormonal factors - most likely a role for sex hormone signalling aspects of neurodevelopment. Perhaps an element that is social too. We don’t have all those answers. What we do know for sure is that some people observed male at birth developed the awareness/ understanding/ knowledge of self as female, and that this feeling is so visceral and powerful that repressing/ denying/ contradicting it results in profound psychological distress.

I said this to another poster earlier and I’ll say it to you now: if you want to make a point, I suggest presenting an argument.
I’m not in any knots, but people just refuse to exercise their brain even an iota.

OK, so you accept that being female is a reality, and that it is a reality which does not include trans women.

Why should we not have words to describe that reality, and the people who share it, and some rights and spaces attached to that reality, without being forced to include a completely separate group of people who do not share that reality, for no reason other than that they want to be included?

Yeah I agree! That’s why I’m all for the kids and their gender project - god knows we haven’t found the button, so I’m all for them seeing if they can

I've got no gametes left so no danger of stepping on mine anymore

It's not a circular question if you use the objective definition which worked perfectly well throughout human history until about five minutes ago when some men started demanding to be included.

It is of course circular if you define a woman as anyone who identifies a woman, which is utterly fucking meaningless.

Trans people have EVERY human right that everyone else does. They have EVERY sex-based protection under the law that everyone else does. What they demand ON TOP of this are the sex-based rights of the opposite sex. The right, for example, to take their penises into rape crisis centres and expect women to be legally silenced. The right, for example, for a male rapist to be roommates in a twin bedded cell with a woman. The right, for example, to enter female toilets with gaps at the top and bottom of the doors even if that makes women in there very uncomfortable.

So, to answer your question, I have sympathy for those with gender dysphoria. That sympathy does not make me extend a hand of invitation out to a man to attend my breastfeeding support group simply because he cries himself to sleep at night wishing he had breasts. Women are entitled to single sex spaces when we can relax without men, including men who very sincerely claim to be women and do their best to conceal their maleness.

They’re mostly not kids now, the actual kids are getting bored with it all. The biggest age group supporting genderism is 25-34.

How about you exercise yours, and tell us what the single word for an adult human female is.

"Who"? You think Roger Daltrey spends his time producing gametes in order to be classed as male? You must be funded by the right-wing Christians.

"Produce"? Like fruit and veg? Blessed be the Fruit, are you saying you, a so-called feminist, would vote for Gilead?

I'm all for them trying to bust stereotypes. Just not for them to invade single sex spaces and mutilate themselves irreversibly while doing it.

The knots are visible from space.

By the way @Tangfastic71 if you would like to see the studies that show that male people's physical advantages do not disappear, I have many studies for you to see. Some of them cover skeletal advantages.

If you want me to post them, please let me know. Unlike your blog post, these are peer reviewed studies with conclusions that are supported by the data.

Surely you are more intelligent than this?

Or have you backed yourself into a corner and are now arguing to the most ridiculous position because you are stubborn?

Ah well I am a crone after all, 25 is a kid to me

So... late to the thread, but is it fair to summarize that the OP is as terfy as they come, but everyone else is just too unkind with their terfiness?

She wrote:
No men in women's sport (and I say that as a former England record holder).
No sharing of female spaces.
Two sexes only. That's my cards on the table.
I also agree this is a male movement. If you talk to ftm their friendship group will be mainly males.

So it's just about tone then, because that's what the people you decry are asking for.

My issue is the venom and stereotypes.
I grew up with old school transsexuals. I think you'll find this violence against women is not in their name.

So - it is just about tone. How about the new style transsexuals? Does their attitude impress you?

Surely you are more intelligent than this?

You must be new here.

rebel, but in the approved way only!