Trans hate (I don't) and the same old, same old

[RetiringRita]

Well I've been on a few threads this weekend and the one that's been hijacked yet again was the question of trans hate on mumsnet.
The OP asked for opinions on whether that was a fair statement yet within minutes the question was ignored and the same FWR posters were out in force. They didn't want to answer the question so targeted their posts to state their agenda.

Sex as defined by The Surpreme Court ruling
TW perverts in women's prisons
TW perverts in female loos
Men in dresses
FTM having ASD or mental illness.

It appears those of us who sit on the fence are not entitled to be there. Those who cannot be bullied get shouted down.

I have been called the following :

Hand Maiden
Trans Ally
Not part of the sisterhood
Delusional
Captured
Shameful
Mentally ill
A liar (frequently)
A man

None apply to me.

Am I being unreasonable to ask for some understanding and compassion for trans people who don't fit the stereotypes listed?

It means a group of people who share their female biology, and nothing more.

I have more in common with a transman of today than a woman of Ancient China because of culture, socialisation and so on. But the thing that unites that woman from Ancient China, the transman and me is our female bodies.

That’s it.

That might have been your intention, but it is not the outcome.

'had the intention of pointing out that men who identify as men are more dangerous than those who identify as women. That is a statistical fact.'

That is not a statistical fact. You have not supported this 'fact' at all.

There is no statistical evidence that this group of male people in the UK, at any stage of transition, is less of a risk of committing sex crime than the UK male population in general.

There is also no statistical evidence that any male in the UK at any stage of transition generally has the same or less risk of committing sex crime as the general UK population.

You are absolutely right ! it won’t change the reality of being female.

which is why you have absolutely nothing to worry about and all this “women are being redefined and we won’t even be able to describe ourselves”! is an absolute nonsense, and nothing but wild fear and projection.
We can live with and accept both realities. Because both are in fact real

You starting point for law and social contract is "stuff" that we can use to say some men can do this but other men can not.

Male who want to be seen as women are judged on a GI Joe to Barbie scale.

And so far its how fashionable and emotional people are so the social contract/law gets broken down into 4 groups

They then have to be "nice"

So that is now 8 groups.

And all that to justify why women as a group should not be allowed to be recognised as a group be allowed single sex spaces.

Explain what I should feel if I feel like a man
Explain what I should feel if I feel like a woman

Right, so you do accept that transwomen aren't female then. Great.

perfectly put.

which is why you have absolutely nothing to worry about and all this “women are being redefined and we won’t even be able to describe ourselves”! is an absolute nonsense, and nothing but wild fear and projection.

And what single word do we use to describe an adult human female? I've asked a few times but you've not answered

of course that is what you have taken from my posts. 😂😭

And women who state that men are not women no matter what they "feel like" are not any of the things which are levelled at them .

It reminds me of Brass Eye: “it’s a scientific fact! There’s no actual evidence, but it’s a scientific fact!”

It’s an entirely circular question so I don’t know how to answer it .

I didn’t mention feminine. You did.

It's not a circular question. What single word do we use to describe an adult human female.

We have a word for adult bovine females we should have one for adult human female shouldn't we?

If I look at trans friends they look, sound, act, smell, dress and walk more like me than my husband

No male person with male hip alignment and male q-angles will 'walk' as a female does. This is false.

Male people's skeletal structure remains unchanged with transition. Even where their arm and leg joints are can indicate that they are male and will be visible through clothing covering those joints but when the joints are moving.

How do female people smell? What aromas do female people have in common?

Dress and act are not relevant to sex.

And sound? How does a male person change the timbre of their voice and their tones to be indistinguishable to the female ear? If you cannot tell the difference, that may be an individual and unique experience.

you described “femininity”. How else would your male friends be more like women in appearance etc? I don’t actually subscribe to “feminine men”, I’m trying to understand your perspective. Obviously I don’t see these men as women.

It makes as much logical sense as men becoming women:
Age is a spectrum
What about people with progeria?
Age is a social construct
People can dress and get surgery, use make up etc to present/pass as younger or older
Age is all about how you feel inside (Age is just a number, you are only as old as you feel etc)
6 year olds aren't complaining about it

And I can't help myself...
Maths is a white, patriarchal colonialist idea, so if you believe in it, you're a racist.

Of course it’s circular , because in order to answer it I first have to accept your definition/ understanding of adult human female? Otherwise how do i answer it?

You don't know how to answer the question "what single word do we use to describe an adult human female"?

I'm lost for words. Tying yourself up in knots, anything rather than just saying WOMAN.

Well what word do you use for someone with xx chromosomes over the age of 18?

Well, what's your definition of it, then?

Adult over the age of 18
Human homosapian
Female of the sex class who produce large immobile gametes

Thanks for posting that @Helleofabore
because it makes it very clear that so called “femininity” in men is exactly what the poster was describing, whether she refers to it as that or not, because that’s what she sees being a woman is, despite the attempted gotcha that I made that up.

We can now all see the logic of the people that tell us we're wrong.

A woman is an adult female human being. I am a woman because I meet the criteria.

• I have lived long enough to be an adult, so I am not a girl
• I developed along the pathway to produce large immobile gametes and went through female puberty
• I am not a cat, dog, chimp, or any other of my mammalian family, I am a homo sapien

That’s what it is to be a woman.

Transwomen do not meet the criteria, and are a subsection of men. That’s perfectly ok; lots of amazing people are men. But it doesn’t grant them access to the female estate.

That's not what a circular question is.