Child excluded from holiday with other parent

[Aquestiontoponder]

Hi all. I just want to gauge if I am unreasonable for being annoyed?
I have a 14 year old with my ex husband, We've been separated 10 years and he remarried last year. His wife has 3 children (15, 19, 25).

I have just found out they are going on a cruise next month and have told my son he's not invited! It'll just be my ex husband, wife and her 3 children (I appreciate 2 are not classed as children).

He feels really upset and excluded. There have been issues for a while where he feels excluded from what he sees as "their" family. My son says when he goes there he stays in his room and avoids contact with anyone. He doesn't really have a relationship with stepmum as he perceives she causes issues with his dad.

Last year they went on a big family holiday and there were some issues. Largely stemming from the fact he doesn't feel part of the family and they are always "on at him". My son ended up trying to avoid them and it caused a huge falling out. He was messaging me daily saying he wanted to come home. To make it clear; I was encouraging him to speak with his dad about how he felt and advised to try and keep the peace. Once back my son heard his dad on a work call saying he was stressed after holiday and it was nothing to do with his step children because they are lovely, it is is biological son who is horrible. Obviously this upset my son further and he hasn't really wanted to go to his dad's. It's at the stage he dreads going but goes out of loyalty.
His dad has always been a good dad and has very regular contact, however he has changed over the last few years. He doesn't really speak to me anymore (since he moved in with now wife).

Anyway, they have basically told him they're off on a cruise next month and due to the stress of last year's holiday, he shouldn't go. They are going to leave it for this year and then he can go away with them next year.

I also want to add that my son is genuinely a lovely, kind and caring child. He's considerate and honestly the best company, so he's not rude or hard work.

He's upset and I'm not happy but my son doesn't want me to say anything. He already feels pushed out and this is making things worse.

Why in earth would he want to go if it’s so awful and he wanted to come home. You need to have an honest chat with your ex, clearly other things are going on and maybe it’s not all his fault and your son needs to take some responsibility! 14 year old boys are not angels!

Wondering if your son might find a part time job or volunteering role or hobby that takes up evening time so there becomes a 'good reason' to reduce the time spent at his dad's house without awkward conversations about loyalty/ fairness. It's more about him becoming older and having his own interests/ commitments.

An early morning paper round (if they still exist) might be a good reason to be with you for getting to work on time. Volunteering with Beavers or Cubs or doing the DofE award are all possibilities. Something musical or sporty or even a local youth club are worth a thought.

Does he have someone to talk to who isn't you? That's worth thinking about.

Also worth helping/ encouraging him to establish + keep a separate relationship with his dad's parents and maybe his aunt on that side (depending what the issues were with his cousin).

Depending on where you're living and the state of the roads, now would be a good time for him to learn about taking busses and trains independently and maybe also cycling for commuting.

My brain keeps going to ways of shaming the step mum into treating him more reasonably but that won't work / is a bad idea.

from what you’ve said your son won’t have a good time on the holiday, considering last years. I say you take him on holiday and have a great time!
you can’t force people to want to spend time with him. They are the ones missing out.
Go enjoy yourselves together.

This exactly

We had a lot of issues on holiday with DSD this year. She cried every day. Which was horrible for her and everyone else too. I think she felt overwhelmed and missed her mum etc. But she is 12 and she cried constantly eg we went for a buffet breakfast and there was lots of food she would ordinarily eat but she cried and refused to eat and said she only wanted a chocolate crepe etc. (one of many examples) would I accept this from my child. Nope. I got her a chocolate crepe after we all ate breakfast. But the stress of that half hour was horrible. I honestly don’t want to take her on holiday again and that’s a horrible thing to say because I’ve been in her life a long time and I do love her. I also don’t want to leave her out.

I book the holidays etc for our family so I’ve declined to book one for next year. So nobody is having a holiday except dsd who is going away for 2 weeks or so with her mum.

Maybe after a prolonged break I can face it again.

I don’t think they step parents can win. Dynamics are different in both houses naturally. Everything is different between how different people do things. Also with bigger families there are more people’s needs to take into account whereas dsd and her mum are a unit of two, we are a much bigger family with more opinions to take on board and nothing is ever any one individuals ideal really.

We do try and manage this as adults by talking often without dsd knowing we talk. It does help for a better experience all round.

Surely if he had such a miserable time last year, he should be happy he’s not going and he gets to spend more time with you?

It strikes me that your son wants to be seen and included in that group which is why he is upset when he isn’t. He is young and not able to or confident enough to express himself with other older individuals who have not shown understanding in the past. Sometimes when people want to be noticed and don’t how to achieve this in a positive way, they take themselves away and hope that people will ask them if they are ok and encourage them to join in - this is a scenario for example your child will have seen at school etc, but he isn’t getting that reaction. And so doubles down. This cycle will only break if efforts are made to either include him - properly although the step family don’t seem willing or he decides it is too painful go continue which he will find upsetting to admit. He is still so young, and dealing with rejection is very hard. Shame his Dad does not see this.

You need to try to get your Ex to see how unfair he is to his DS, his wife has projected her animosity she has for you to your DS which is totally unfair to your DS as he had nothing to do with the breakup etc. Your Ex needs to stand up to his wife if he wants a lasting relationship with his son.

I’m 100% with you on this OP. I have a 15 year old son that has autism & adhd (recently diagnosed). Myself & ex split nearly 12 years ago. We have 3 children together. He was a fantastic dad up until 8 years ago. He helped out with collections from school. Had them every Friday night until Saturday morning and then other weekend, Friday evening until Sunday evening. 8 years ago he met someone else (which he is entitled to of corse) but almost straight away the Friday evenings stopped and it was just every other weekend. He then stopped collecting the youngest (now 15 old year) from school but still went to the same school and collected the new step son. Moving forward a year or so later he went on to have another child with his new partner. Excuses came as to why he couldn’t have the children on his weekends and after a few months it stopped all together. The new partner refused to have anything to do with my daughter and this caused a huge row and he stopped talking to our daughter for 2 years. She was 13 at the time. Zero contact with her for that period. 15 year old was struggling in mainstream school so I managed to to get him a ‘medical move’ to an Alternative Provision. I tried communicating with him and getting him involved. I would forward him reports from CAMHs, keep him in the loop about stuff and try and get him to show some interest but I never once got a reply. He has no idea about my 15 year olds life. Cut a very long story short my son was involved in a very traumatic event about 6 weeks ago. Dad couldn’t come to see him because he had work the next day. He hasn’t contacted him once since it happened. Hasn’t sent me a message to ask how he is. Radio silence. My son has never got along with new partner. He said she was horrible to him and used to make comments when his dad wasn’t in the room. I can’t speak to ‘Dad’ because he becomes verbally aggressive at the drop of a hat. They recently went to Disneyland together and my son wasn’t invited. It’s so hurtful and completely unnecessary. My son is now of an age when he has made his own mind up about his dad. He said the other day ‘yea that’s nice, he can’t pay his child maintenance (£50 a week) but he go to Disneyland, drive around in a new car and take the other kids to the cinema’. Before anyone jumps on and asks how he knows he’s dad fails to pay maintenance it’s because he used to put the money in my sons account. He refused to put it in my account incase I spent it on myself 🤯. At the end of the day when you have a child whether you and the other parent are still together or not, if you have step children then all the children should be treated exactly the same way. He is your exes son. He shouldn’t be picking and choosing when he goes on holiday with them. Imagine if that was you. You went off on holiday with step children and left your son behind. He would be the first to have something to say. Unfortunately for my son he has no relationship with his dad at the moment. These kids see things that we don’t realise. Maybe he has some resentment so will act differently towards his dad. That’s on dad, not your son. You have every right to feel annoyed. I feel deeply for your son. I mean who even does that? Exclude your own child from a family holiday because it was a bit stressful. Doesn’t matter if the child lives with you or not, they are still your child. You don’t pick and choose. Hopefully your ex realises his mistakes soon because your son will no doubt do the same as mine and wash his hands of him. It’s such a shame that people are like this. I just don’t get it. Unless you have experienced it yourself and seen how it affects your child then people don’t understand. I hope your son is ok.

If he refuses to relate to the family, then he is going to feel left out. I think, as a mother, you are preferring not to see what is actually going on. Your son has problems, instead of blaming others you need to find out what they are and help him.

My son had a friend who loved with his dad, new wife and 2 children they had together. He also spent time with his mum, her new husband and their 2 subsequent offspring. The poor kid never felt like he belonged anywhere!! Both his parents had "moved on" and he was stuck between them both. I know this is a different situation to yours but it affected him so much that he caused problems at school, was a very unhappy young adult and eventually got into trouble. I think you need to talk to your ex and tell him how much it I'd affecting your son, his son. Playing hapoy families with a new wife and her kids must have a really strong affect on him, he's only 14. I divorced my ex when my kids were adults with families of their own and it still messed them up. Ask your son how he really feels, and what he would really like then talk to your ex so you can both come up with something to help. 14 is not that old plus it's a difficult age at school as well so there's lots of stuff going on for him.

What a pathetic specimen your ex is, you are well shot of him.

From a SP point of view we couldn’t win with my SS. We would take him on days out and he’d have his head in his phone and honestly looked so miserable. We’d organise loads of different types of activities and he’d point blank refuse to engage.

We’d ask him what he wanted to do and he’d say that he just wanted to stay in his room and play on the computer, but then go to his mother and tell her that we refused to do anything with him.

We’d Take him away for UK weekends and holidays and he’d just walk behind us with his head down, totally refusing to join in.

He told us that he didn’t want to go abroad “because that food is disgusting and I hate the heat”, but when we went without him he’d complain to his mother that we were excluding him. He made every holiday miserable for everyone involved.

my husband even took him alone for weeks camping etc and he’d complain that we were excluding him and not treating him as family.

i don’t know why my SS acted the way that he did, we tried everything to include him, read countless books about blended families etc but he just didn’t want it.

If he won’t engage, then I honestly don’t blame his father for not taking him, I wish that I’d had the strength to suggest that to my husband but I wanted us to be a family.

Unfortunately my adult kids will still comment on past holidays and say “yeah that was brilliant, but remember when SS did this and we had to leave early” etc. He ruined my children’s childhood experiences because we only did things when he was with us, simply to not exclude him.

your son needs to understand that actions have consequences and if he wants to be unsociable and ruin other people’s holiday time, then he will get excluded.

i don’t think this is a fair comment to make at all. 14 years old. He feels like he doesn’t fit in. Hormones are all over the place at this age. OP states that son wants to have a relationship with his dad. When my step son joined our family he was 9. His behaviour was uncontrollable. I’ll admit that I used to dread him coming over but then I sat there one day and thought about the situation. He is coming into our home, my 3 children were there and he felt like he didn’t belong. How would I feel if I were in that situation? He was doing it to direct the attention to him. I spoke to my partner about it and said that I think he needed to spend some 1 on 1 time with him as well as us all being together. We have included him in everything thing we do. My side of the family have taken him on and he is treated exactly the same as my children. He is 16 now so he picks and chooses when he wants to come on holiday, come to family events, etc. He is secure in knowing that he is welcome here whenever he wants and he will be invited to where ever we go. Maybe dad needs to grow up, accept that he has a child from a previous relationship, make some time for his son, put the effort in and ensure that his son is secure and welcome. That goes for the whole of dads new family. I garantee they will see a massive change. People are too fond of starting relationships knowing their new partner has a child but put no effort in what so ever. If you don’t want to include the child then don’t get with their parent. Same goes to the parent of the child… you don’t pick and choose when it suits you. Child neglect! Just because the child doesn’t live with them it doesn’t mean they are not neglecting them. Remember he is still a child. You can’t put this on him or OP. You state OP’s son has problems and she needs to find out what they are… can you not see what it is? He feels pushed out and like he doesn’t belong. Have you ever heard of fight or flight? Instead of putting himself in a position where he feels uncomfortable he is avoiding it. Example… sitting in a room on his own. Why doesn’t dad go and sit with him? Ask him to come down and join everyone? Take him for a walk? There is so much here that can be done. Just seems like dad cant be bothered and is taking the easy route and excluding him.

If children don't feel like they fit in because they are at an awkward stage, the solution isn't to exclude them from family life but to explore ways of creating a bond. Even if it's collecting them a McDonald's on the way home so that they know that you care.

I've only read your first few responses, OP, but I feel sorry for your son. He's only 14 and his father has deliberately excluded him from a family holiday. Even if he didn't want to go with his step-mother, -brothers and -sisters, he should have been given the choice.

If exh wants ds to stop over to reduce the amount of child maintenance he has to pay, can you afford to tell him that the maintenance can stay the same but ds will stay at home? It sounds like that would make exh's home life easier in the short term. Perhaps some distance would make exh realise that he's missing out on the relationship with his son and might try to rebuild their bond. DS might find it easier not being constantly disappointed by his father.

It's awful when your dc can't speak openly to anyone and have them advocate on his behalf.

Tbh he’s best off not going, he’ll only be miserable & they’ll have more fuel to blame him for
id tell him he’s best off not going why put himself through more heartache

You are agreeing with me.

My goodness, your son needs to realise that he's not responsible for his Dad "getting upset", or angry etc., and just stop going. Then you can claim more CMS and take your son on more trips just the two of you.

It sounds like your son is walking on eggs shells with your Dad, whilst feeling like he's in the lions den with his awful step mother.

Your poor son, no wonder he feels so crappy, excluded, and unloved by his Dad and his shiny new family.

I hope one day soon he realises that it's ok to just stop going. Is he aware that you would be financially better off if he stopped going over there? I know that shouldn't be used to emotionally coerce him to stop going, but it sounds like he's genuinely really unhappy going and feels like he only should to stop his Dad getting angry or upset, so just wondering if he is aware that they only have him 40% of the time to avoid paying you much CMS. Perhaps I'd be making him aware of how much better off you'd be if he stopped going there and how that could enhance the quality of your lives. And before anyone jumps on me, I really don't mean this to sound manipulative, just trying to gently persuade him on how his life could genuinely be made happier, win win.

Your son is 14, dealing with adolescence and a complicated new set of relationships that sound like a minefield. He doesn’t want to feel excluded by his dad. He’s 14 for goodness sake - I would find this situation stressful and hard to navigate and I’m ancient. I think his dad needs to know how much your son feels excluded and hurt. His dad needs to give him equal / full status in the new family. It might be worth trying to talk to him. The new family mustn’t see him as a second class citizen. And yes of course 14 year olds can be a pain sometimes - withdrawn, moody, and frankly exasperating - but if this wasn’t a blended family he wouldn’t just get left at home the following year. That is not kind and sends out a really negative and hurtful message to your boy.

Sounds like he is one of those men who just goes along what the bew wife says. It is easier to forget about the old family and concentrate on the new.

Hiw is your relationship with ex-mil? Can you talk to her and she can maybe tlan to ex, if he doesn't talk to you?

I think these are growing pains. The adults need a more hands on approach to make this work. Family counseling might be a good place to start. Maybe dad could take the two younger kids on an outing for bonding time. What do the kids have in common? Work from there. It may never work. Some natural families don’t get along. But dad should spend time with his son regardless.

Some of the responses here are unbelievable and I haven’t even read them all. He is a child. Period. The damage being done here to his mental health is by far the worst thing. The manipulation and childishness is beyond belief. Emotional immaturity on his dad and SM’s behalf are off the charts. Your son has more maturity in his little finger. How you have described it OP is non stop mental abuse and a child is expected to just accept it and accommodate 2 ‘adults’?! I’m honestly baffled. I wouldn’t even be letting my son go there.

WhatsApp group. Why is a grown woman sending constant photos of eating in restaurants?! That’s not normal in itself. Who gives a flying F if they’re eating out, what a performance. The SM sounds unhinged and his dad should be ashamed at putting his new family before his own child’s wellbeing. Whilst you are respecting your sons wishes I think there comes a point where you do have to take charge as the only seemingly sensible parent that he has, and stop them from all treating him like a verbal punchbag. He’s a teenager at the end of the day, it’s never going to be all sunshine and rainbows is it?! Despicable behaviour from his dad and SM!

As a step-parent I am often the one who feels like I am not part of the family, it's shit but I think it's better than the other way around and the children feeling that way. However, unless his stepmum is actually batshit crazy Im wondering if maybe your son's perspective on things could be a bit different to theirs. I say this as a number of the points you have said have really reminded me of my 13 year old stepson, such as saying that his dad or I have been getting on at him when talking about dreading his work experience, my stepson is incredibly negative about everything, any life experience or event he will see in a negative light and it is really draining to be honest. I dont get on at him about it (although sometimes his dad does) but we do both try to encourage him to see the positive and usefulness of different experiences and try to change the negative narrative a bit.
And in relation to finding sweet wrappers in the bins, I have an issue with my stepson eating all the snacks in the house. Im talking I've bought enough snacks for school, nursery and after school for 4 kids for at least a week on Sunday night, to find them all gone by Tuesday morning. I've heard stepson complain to his gran that I dont allow him to eat snacks which just isn't true but I've asked him to just ask before taking them so I can know what's there for lunchboxes. He is very overweight and secret eats and we find loads of wrappers of things in the bin which DH talks to him about, not to give him into trouble but to try to get to the bottom of it and help him. No one is digging through bins but you open the bin and can see tons of crisp packets and cookie bags sitting there at the top and know he's eaten all that in the space of the 15minute walk home from school.

I think it definitely sounds like his dad is not making him feel loved or supported the way that he should be and it's a real shame that you don't feel like you can speak to him about this the way you once could, but I'm just saying my own experiences to show how it might not be exactly how your son says it is, not because he is lying but just because he is looking at it from a different perspective.

If I were you I would make a last attempt.to discuss with his dad, trying to keep it as amicable as possible, if that doesn't work then I would try to make sure that your son still feels a part of his dad's family by going above your ex's head and starting to reorganise those family meet ups between your son and his extended family on his dad's side if you still have a good relationship with them.