Child excluded from holiday with other parent

[Aquestiontoponder]

Hi all. I just want to gauge if I am unreasonable for being annoyed?
I have a 14 year old with my ex husband, We've been separated 10 years and he remarried last year. His wife has 3 children (15, 19, 25).

I have just found out they are going on a cruise next month and have told my son he's not invited! It'll just be my ex husband, wife and her 3 children (I appreciate 2 are not classed as children).

He feels really upset and excluded. There have been issues for a while where he feels excluded from what he sees as "their" family. My son says when he goes there he stays in his room and avoids contact with anyone. He doesn't really have a relationship with stepmum as he perceives she causes issues with his dad.

Last year they went on a big family holiday and there were some issues. Largely stemming from the fact he doesn't feel part of the family and they are always "on at him". My son ended up trying to avoid them and it caused a huge falling out. He was messaging me daily saying he wanted to come home. To make it clear; I was encouraging him to speak with his dad about how he felt and advised to try and keep the peace. Once back my son heard his dad on a work call saying he was stressed after holiday and it was nothing to do with his step children because they are lovely, it is is biological son who is horrible. Obviously this upset my son further and he hasn't really wanted to go to his dad's. It's at the stage he dreads going but goes out of loyalty.
His dad has always been a good dad and has very regular contact, however he has changed over the last few years. He doesn't really speak to me anymore (since he moved in with now wife).

Anyway, they have basically told him they're off on a cruise next month and due to the stress of last year's holiday, he shouldn't go. They are going to leave it for this year and then he can go away with them next year.

I also want to add that my son is genuinely a lovely, kind and caring child. He's considerate and honestly the best company, so he's not rude or hard work.

He's upset and I'm not happy but my son doesn't want me to say anything. He already feels pushed out and this is making things worse.

Is he a "lovely, kind and caring child" when he's on holiday, or is he sullen, uncoperative and moody when he's on holiday? He wanted to come home last time, so why does he even want to go?

This is great advice. Do this.

Strong Cinderella vibes from all the OP's posts. It just sounds like a classic case of a man who's got a new family and can't really be bothered with the old one. I imagine the new wife would rather he spent his money on her and her kids as well (I never understand women who are like this, or men who just go along with this happening, but it happens a lot so there it is).

There isn't any good way of dealing with this because your ex is just being a shit dad but is unlikely to see it or step up, and it's your son who'll be left feeling unloved and that he's not as good as the rando stepsiblings. I suppose all you can do is reassure him that he IS good enough, and to take him on holiday yourself.

He was 13. Do you think your average 13 year old would cope with a scenario where he is one against 5? Four of whom are adults who spend their time excluding him from meals out, Father's Day or indeed anything fun they do? OP said he was told to stay in his room on the holiday while the others went out and left him. They also have a go at him for spending time with his grandparents and the SM took his phone and criticised him for having more photos of his holiday with his mum than of her family. How would your 13 year old - or your 13 year old self - have coped with that?

It's not about whether he wants to go or not, it's about being excluded from his own nuclear family.

Or being told that some other random family is now his, but he's not really welcome there.

You say your son doesn't want you to say anything but I think you need to advocate for him. Perhaps you, son and his dad need to sit down together and talk, or go through counselling together to be able to express how everyone feels without anyone getting angry.

There are two sides to this and you are hearing what your son is saying. He wanted to come home from holiday and shuts himself in a room when he visits (though you say he says he is told to - which is confusing and we would need to know why they are telling a teenager he can't come out).
You say he is upset when he sees photos of them all together which you need to talk to dad about - from what you say your son says they purposefully do these meals and events when he isn't there, but is that truly the case? Can you make it clear with dad that son would like to be there for different things and you can switch days if necessary to facilitate this.

There is every possibility that when there he seems unhappy and that they are at the point where they don't know what to do with him and don't want to risk taking him on a trip where he won't leave the room and be wanting to go home.

I think you need to talk to dad with son present and try to clear the air.

See it from their point of view - last holiday was ruined because of the tension - would you pay out thousands of pounds do it again? What are they meant to do? Just not go on holiday?

I feel for your son too though, maybe you should take him on holiday around the same time?

Why not?! If they’re free it’s lovely to spend a holiday with adult children.

I’ve accidentally clicked thanks instead of quote in my previous post - doh! But can see you’ve edited yours to explain you’ve got a good relationship with your child’s SM, and her granny - which is amazing.

I think our situation was quite different as it was the ex, rather than the child, who was contacting granny - who none of us ever really saw anyway. From your post I believe you suggested OP (the adult) “reaches out”.

Just from my own experience it really just came off as meddling / stirring the pot when granny got involved… especially as she wasn’t actually ever around.

What does your son say they are always "on at him" for?

Won't allow? He's a massive dickhead who is treating his son like shit. Your son is getting older now, you need to support him putting boundaries in and not going as much. It doesn't matter what his Dad wants. His Dad is not acting like a Dad. You sound very passive about this. Take your son to a therapist so she can help him set boundaries for himself and know that he doesn't have to be treated like this because you don't seem to be stepping in and helping him. You say it's a shame and he wants a relationship with his Dad. Well being there isn't helping with this. The relationship is doomed. His Father has fucked it up and he's not receptive to fixing it. The ship has sailed. Protect your son from this emotionally damaging behaviour.

Can you facilitate conversation between father and son? It sounds like your son is his only biological offspring at that the step children were adults / teens when they entered his life. He’s not really their family, even if they shower him with attention ( which is a bit odd if you ask me). He’s slowly but surely losing a precious connection with his only child. He needs to go away on a father-son holiday. They need time to be just them.

You need to protect your son more. This situation sound like something that could have a lasting effect on him.
Whether the dad wanted to marry the stepmum or not is irrelevant.
I don’t think you should’ve told him it was a “shame” he didn’t want to go to his dad’s when he’s so clearly uncomfortable there. You guilt tripped him, I’m afraid.
You need to have a serious chat with the dad and he shouldn’t then go and put the blame on the child.
He seems miles away from being a good father.

Advocate for your son and protect him.

I think you have to back your son on this. They are behaving very badly. Have an honest conversation with your ex and point out he is alienating his son. He is a child, they are adults. He’s being expected to fit in with no concessions. It’s unfair and damaging.

You say his dad is/was genuinely a lovely man and a great Dad, but there must have been a reason you didn't want to continue the relationship.
Is it possible your ex is still mourning your relationship and trying hard to make what might be a rebound relationship work because he doesn't want 2 failed relationships and this is having a negative effect on his relationship with his son? Maybe you need to step in and tell your ex that your son wants a relationship with him but for a while it needs to be a more relaxed one, with meetings away from the home and without the rest of the family present

Your poor son!!
All you can do is encourage your son to speak with his father about things. And be Sympathetic when he talks to you about it. You dont need to slate his father, but repeat the "well thats not very kind of him" lines. I have similar here and it is really heartbreaking, yet my child still has their father on a pedestal until "next time". It might be healthier if he leaves the family whatsapp.

This is really sad. His dad will ruin his relationship with his son. If they were adult kids going on an adult cruise in term time I'd say fair enough, but the 15 year old is going too. It's so unfair. No wonder your son doesn't feel he belongs with them.

There was a similar story from a step mum in the last few days saying do they have to take step daughter on holiday as she only chooses to see dad for shopping trips and holidays and never wants to come to see them otherwise. If someone can find and link it here that might be interesting reading for you!

This sort of exclusion and victimisation within the family is a form of abuse. I'm not saying this situation is the same but justifying exclusion due to a child's "bad behaviour" and othering them is very much a feature of some of the child abuse cases which have made the papers in the past few years.

As the wife of a 45 year old DH who has lived this as a child, let your son decide and back him up. DH and BIL were never a patch on the step kids. Now all adults, step siblings had their kids who now have kids, our kids (actual grandkids) don’t get a look in but the great grands do, parties (which are always kept secret from us), sleepovers, trips out of town etc. DH’s step sister got married last year and non of us were invited. A quiet affair yet distant friends were there. Our families were excluded and FIL never said anything or spoke up yet came round the following weekend to bung our kids their monthly £10 and brag about how good it was despite us blatantly not asking about it or being arsed.

It’s all been off since we met 20 years ago. Women can come into another blokes life and erase what he had to make room for what she has. My FIL, as nice as he is, just goes where he’s told and does what he’s told. The step side take priority so we don’t bother and haven’t done. My DH doesn’t want our kids exposed to that so we just keep away. My DH doesn’t have a relationship as such with his dad. It’s all very awkward and the hurt is still there.

So much to unpack here, OP. The holiday business isn’t great but the bigger picture is the real problem.

Your ex sounds like he’s trying so hard to make a perfect family with his new wife that he’s failing his own son, at an age when he needs his Dad more that ever.

Is contact court ordered? If not then DS definitely does have a say and doesn’t have to stay the night. I’m wondering if your ex is hung up overnight stays because it reduces any maintenance he has to pay? Or is it a point of pride?

The ‘everyone must be treated fairly’ approach is also flawed because fair doesn’t always mean equal. And only two of the children are children.

i know you said he reacts badly when you or your DS try to speak to him. Would he consider attending some counselling sessions with you and DS or just DS?

if not then I think it’s worth trying again to say ‘please stop and try to build some positive next steps with DS’ It sounds like they have zero 1:1 time together, which is terrible. The PP who suggested them spending time together away from ex’s house is absolutely right - this is a great way to rebuild the relationship and trust. If your ex won’t do this then he’s not putting your son first.

This is such a bizarre response . Children are divvied up like that. His Dad is going on a family holiday without his son.

OP It doesn’t really matter how your son behaved or didn’t behave on the last holiday his Dad should be prioritising him, I feel sad for him. At the same time he shouldn’t go on a holiday where he isn’t wanted and is treated like that, you need to protect him from that. Hard and sad all round but with your love and security he will be fine, it’s just tough that his Dad doesn’t have a backbone and is choosing this ‘family’ instead of his own. Sadly I think that this might be the beginning of it all and if his Dad doesn’t listen now I worry about their relationship moving forward, it’s hurtful.

Oops

OP, I may be completely wrong, but I get the impression your son just wants to spend one on one time with his father.

When Courts make Child Arrangement Orders the Orders specify who a child will live with and who and when they ‘will spend time with’ (usually the non-resident parent).

That wording isn’t just plucked out of the air. It is not unknown for Courts to stress to the non-resident parent that this is specifically time for them to spend with their child and for relationships to work, the non-resident parent needs to ensure they make that time appealing for the child to want to spend that time with them.

I understand from your posts that despite you also being in a new relationship (and new ‘family’ ?) you ensure you spend time with just you and your son ? This is what your Ex should be doing. It’s not easy but nobody said being a parent was easy.

If your son’s father wants to have a fulfilling relationship with his son then he needs to invest time and effort into that relationship. He must understand his son doesn’t have an emotional tie to his new wife and her children and may not even want to. If his father had children with his new wife then his son would have a tie to his half-siblings but these people in his father’s new ‘family’ are nothing to him. His father may have been a good father before he found his new ‘family’ but he isn’t now.

I may be cynical, but I have seen enough cases in Family Court where the non-resident parent has used the percentage of ‘time spent with’ in a CAO to score points off the resident parent or minimise their Maintenance payments.

Having pontificated, what can I suggest ? Sadly, it doesn’t sound as if your Ex is listening to you or your/his son so the only thing I can suggest is going to Family Court for a formal CAO and hope the initial Mediation or work with CAFCASS might help the scales drop from your Ex’s eyes.It comes at a monetary cost and there is no guarantee it would work but it would formalise things and allow your son to express his ‘Wishes and Feelings’ to CAFCASS. Your Ex might listen to an independent view especially if it is reinforced by the Court. Sometimes a sledgehammer is needed to crack a tough nut.

I hope this is of help and I wish you and your son all the best.

I didn't say the 19 and 25 year old get upset. I said that his father (and presumably wife) want everything even. It's the adults pushing everything.