AIBU to think that MNers are excessively hateful towards trans people?

[Wordsmithery]

I accept that there are huge areas to be addressed when it comes to trans/non-trans rights: toilets and changing rooms, sporting events, prison accommodation, to name but a few. Government has a lot of work to do, listening to people's genuine concerns and drafting laws that protect everyone. And of course biological men masquerading as trans to prey on women are scum.
However, reading some of the many MN threads on trans people, it feels like there is a terrifying level of vitriol at the right of trans people to even exist. I emphasise, this is not about toilets/safe spaces etc. It's about Will's right to identify as Jill, or vice versa. Why does it really matter so much to us - are we scared of people being different? Are MNers failing to speak out because they're terrified of being shot down in flames? How is it hurting any of us if someone chooses to identify as their non-birth gender (beyond the caveats in my first paragraph)? What is the opinion of MNers with children or siblings or best friends who announce they are trans ?
Asking because I'm alarmed by the lack of trans allies (or even trans tolerators) on this forum. And I'm even more alarmed that there may be a reassuring number of trans allies on here but we never hear from them because they know what response they'll get.
No hate please. We seem to have enough of that already.

You do you 👍

I've been on mumsnet since 2011, under various user names. It's often been the only place women can talk about the loss of our rights to trans identified men.

One such man told me, on here, that his infertility was much worse than mine because at least I had a womb. I was going through fertility investigations at the time, and he'd fathered a child.

One of his fellow travellers told me that they were glad I couldn't have children. All because I won't call a man a woman.

There is so much pressure on women to "be kind" to people who act against our interests. Including men who claim they are women. I think perhaps if we'd been less kind in the first place, perhaps we wouldn't have been here now.

Men can never be women, amd its not unkind to say so. Particularly on a website aimed at mums.

Same Equality Act, as the Scottish Government were reminded when they tried to bring in self-ID.

Why not just shut us up once and for all by answering?
It's "not their job" to clarify the correct views. It's "too complex". We're lying when we say we are interested. We are complicating things by saying sex and gender are different things. We shouldn't say that women are female but if a male person wants to be a woman then of course they need surgery to be perceived as having female sex characteristics.
We shouldn't ask as it's offensive to even ask - just accept that 'woman' doesn't mean female and don't bother yourself about what we propose it does mean in law and society - it doesn't affect you. Everyone knows whether they meet the unsaid meaning of woman, and if you don't, you need therapy.

All of the above I have read recently. Only a trans man cared enough to try and get their understanding across, when none of the people claiming to speak on behalf of the lovely trans community could do it.

I have reached the conclusion they don't know what they are talking about, but pretending they do gives them the opportunity to kick women, and people who work in charities supporting rape victims and disabled people, and even people who have awards for services to LGBT people because they were a rape survivor who wanted a female carrying out their breast examination. It's appalling.

I'll assume the OP is completely naive about the vile hatred that gets directed at women who think that sex is real and it matters. Terfisaslur.com

That doesn’t make sense. And it doesn’t address my question about statistics.

What, like ‘fill a thread with 1000 vitriolic posts’, that you can’t evidence. Come on now.

We’re nearly at 1000 and yet to see someone actually evidence any hate. Well done trans allies.

Now, now that's not very kind, is it?

Tut tut.

I thought it was all 'be kind'. Or is that just to men?

Completely agree with your analysis.

Stonewall don't define cross-dressers. They specifically included it in their definition of trans until very recently. It's not specifically excluded from their current definition:

Trans
A term to describe people whose gender is not the same as, or does not sit comfortably with, the sex they were assigned at birth.
Stonewall uses 'trans' as an umbrella term including (but not limited to) transgender, transsexual, genderqueer, genderfluid, non-binary, agender, trans man, trans woman, trans masculine and trans feminine.

(my bold)

https://www.stonewall.org.uk/resources/list-lgbtq-terms

No one can “address your question about statistics” because you have set your own limitations which aren’t relevant in crime recording, and no one needs to. Men pose a risk to women and “trans women” are men. You think they pose a different risk to women, you prove it.

And agender people are still counted as trans. Agender: This is a term for individuals who are genderless or who reject gender identification completely.

Genuinely this is the only label I've come across that seems to come close to describing me.

I agree and I’m astounded that Mumsnet allow the hate to continue

“There is a special place in hell for women who don't help other women."
Madeleine K Albright

I used to be shocked at how women could be so unsupportive of other women to the extent that they put serving the fetishes of men above the dignity and safety of women. Now I'm just saddened.

I hope it's worth it for them, throwing their own mothers, daughters, sisters, to the lions of this sickening ideology, but I fail to see how they sleep at night frankly.
(Nor do I believe all the 'trans rights' pushers on this thread are women at all.)

God some people have the intelligence of mince.
The op asked about vitriol to trans people. The thread got hijacked like all the others.
Trans people exist and they like women and men are protected under the law.

Fwiw I don't even like men. But I'll not have discrimination in any form.
My household can tick the vast majority of boxes, black, LGBTQ and disabled. Try living like that and see how it feels on a daily basis.

Citation needed 🤨

Yes, women are also protected under the law. As a separate protected characteristic from men who identify as women. Hence the recent Supreme Court judgment that has inspired so many TRA tantrums.

Given your posts on this thread, I think you have quite a cheek to say that other people have the 'intelligence of mince'.

Is saying men should not be in female prisons discrimination

Comments like this are just laughable at this stage. Along with the earth is flat, my £20 note is actually a £50 note, my blue pen is really a red pen and men can be women but I can’t articulate what that actually means, but if you don’t agree it’s hate and vitriolic.

It’s boring now.

”intelligence of mince” such kindness, if only we could be as kind as you!

Those who share the intellect of mince think you can change sex.

Hummm is that green ink is a flat earther insult?

Where an employer wanted employees who would follow the rules no thinking no question asked. So wrote an job ad with the request that people send in a CV in green ink. And the employer only inverviews the selected few.🤷‍♀️

Anyway I see that the logical arguments are not being abandoned as posters opt for personal insults......

The fact of the matter is, the majority of the population don’t agree with you, gender identity ideology supporters.

Fin