AIBU to think that MNers are excessively hateful towards trans people?

[Wordsmithery]

I accept that there are huge areas to be addressed when it comes to trans/non-trans rights: toilets and changing rooms, sporting events, prison accommodation, to name but a few. Government has a lot of work to do, listening to people's genuine concerns and drafting laws that protect everyone. And of course biological men masquerading as trans to prey on women are scum.
However, reading some of the many MN threads on trans people, it feels like there is a terrifying level of vitriol at the right of trans people to even exist. I emphasise, this is not about toilets/safe spaces etc. It's about Will's right to identify as Jill, or vice versa. Why does it really matter so much to us - are we scared of people being different? Are MNers failing to speak out because they're terrified of being shot down in flames? How is it hurting any of us if someone chooses to identify as their non-birth gender (beyond the caveats in my first paragraph)? What is the opinion of MNers with children or siblings or best friends who announce they are trans ?
Asking because I'm alarmed by the lack of trans allies (or even trans tolerators) on this forum. And I'm even more alarmed that there may be a reassuring number of trans allies on here but we never hear from them because they know what response they'll get.
No hate please. We seem to have enough of that already.

These people are not TW they are cross dressers as defined by Stonewall.

But I can bet you my pension the vast majority of FTM have body dysphoria.

The counting dead women website lists every woman killed as a result of male violence. I can’t recall many (any?) of the perpetrators being transwomen

Their crimes would be recorded as female. That's another huge issue - statistics, especially in areas such as crime where there is such a massive disparity between male and female offending.

I also wonder about those male prisoners who claim to be transwomen who are doing so because they want to enter female prisons but aren’t trans at all. Just like prisoners who suddenly convert to Islam because they think they’ll get better food.

What is the difference between a man pretending to be a woman and a man pretending to be a man pretending to be a woman? The whole notion of 'genuine trans' is meaningless when the only qualification to be trans is that you say you are.

The vast majority of females are unhappy with their bodies, hence the 'beauty industry'. What point are you making?

They do deserve to live in peace, but not at the expense of the rights of other groups to their peace, no? What they are expecting is unreasonable. Most people don’t believe males are women and they don’t want them in women’s spaces, in women’s sports or to have full gender/sex self ID as TRAs demand. You are on the wrong side of what people think.

Oh come on.

You know Scotland is a different country with different laws to England.

"Transperbole" 🙄

Made up words don't make you seem mature or reasonable.

Stonewall included cross dressers under “the trans umbrella” until very recently. The reason they have dropped it is that all these men now identify as “trans women”.

The one space a female should be safe, is a female only space.

Transwomen ARE men. And I mean, fully men.

I would love it if you could present statistical evidence of numbers of attacks on women by genuine trans women.

Oh, so it's genuine transwomen, now, is it? No true Scotsman fallacy. Pray tell, HOW do we know who is 'genuine' transwomen or not? Btw, you realise you are being transphobic? Because they told us for years, if they say they're trans, they ARE trans, and we must accept it. To cast doubt about how genuine they are, is, transphobic.
And btw, we shouldn't have to show physical attacks to JUSTIFY our HARD WON RIGHTS for privacy and dignity, not just safety.

The counting dead women website lists every woman killed as a result of male violence. I can’t recall many (any?) of the perpetrators being transwomen

Ummmm..... transwomen ARE....MALE!!! Almost 92% of transwomen retain their penis and testicles. So they are FULLY MALE in every way. Do you think transwomen are some kind of third sex, or eunuch or something??

I also wonder about those male prisoners who claim to be transwomen who are doing so because they want to enter female prisons but aren’t trans at all.

Casting aside the fact you are displaying transphobic bigotry here, the fact that some may claim to be transwomen that easily PROVES OUR POINT.
Have a think about it....

Not the point being made, at all. This isn’t just about England. Read the thread.

You can’t have “no true Scotsman” because we’re in England, I won the argument soz

Don’t make nonsensical untrue statements then.

There's also quite a lot of Scottish women on here who have been horrified to see vulnerable women thrown under the bus by our Government and institutions and have spent years fighting back against the deliberate erosion of single sex services and spaces.

I find it hard to understand how anyone living here can look at the SPS situation or the ERCC situation or the Forensic Medical Examiner Services Bill and shrug their shoulders. The lack of empathy towards vulnerable women is utterly shocking.

Oh stop with the 'but it's just like gay!' bs. Gay males didn't seek to enter female spaces. Gay males didn't advocate potentially gay children be sterilised and castrated. Gay people didn't advocate people amputate body bits to make their mental health better.

This is nothing even remotely like gay. And you know it.

I have never implied I know anything with regard to Scotland. You're twisting my words. The vast majority of UK residents live in England.
Youre wrong and you don't like it.

do let me know when you have an argument for why a self selecting group of men should be considered women, in England, Scotland, Transnistria or on the moon.

You do get that there are Scottish posters on here, right?

You're suggesting sex differences between FTM and MTF trans identifying people?

I'd probably agree.

Quite a lot of us.

I see this is the best the genderists have for an “argument”.

But that's not what you're doing. If you just said pro trans, that would be one thing. But you've never mentioned pro trans at all. You are using ANTI-TRANS. Which is where the difference lies.
Also, people that run Mumsnet have purposefully made it a safe space for anti trans views,

You have decided us who are pro women are anti trans. There is no reasoning with you if you think pro womens rights and spaces are "anti trans".

Oh and talking about making 15 year olds feel uncomfortable how do we deal with someone like Eddie/Susie Izzard, who one minute wants women to vote him into Parliament and the next is boasting how he shouted at a group of teenage girls who bravely challenged him when he used a female toilet.

Deliberately threatening and frightening behaviour from an educated middle aged high profile man who even in a darkened room doesn’t look remotely female! If he thinks he can get away with such entitled behaviour then nothing will stop every trans identifying man in the country doing the same.

The only way to stop this attitude is by doing what was done with anti social behaviours like drunk driving, smoking and not wearing a seat belt - having proper backed up legislation and zero tolerance by members of the public for those who continue to flaunt the law. There will still be people who think it doesn’t apply to them, and those who deliberately ignore the law, but it will stop a lot of chancers, and maybe be the push that is needed for either third spaces or a more tolerant attitude by men who safeguard their spaces by allegedly using intimidation ( jury out on that one though).

I saw Stephen Whittle trying to belatedly gatekeep transness the other day.

Scottish women matter. Why are many posters so England-centric?

But that is the employee not the employer.

(Who is spending half a million of public money to prove that they have a contract term)

We both know that single sex spaces were provided in work places to reduce the instances of sexual harassment and abuse. The idea that women should never be on a position where she is forced to provide sexual favours is such an old fashioned one. And whats the issue she has to deal with male bodies anyway etc etc...

Being gay is not a 'feeling', it's same sex attraction, which is a fact. You cannot change sex. That is also a fact. No-one has been able to describe what 'living as a woman' means. It's innate - I don't live as a woman, whatever that means, I just am one. That is also a fact.

I notice you don't address the rest of my post about the abuse and violence meted out towards women.