AIBU to think that MNers are excessively hateful towards trans people?

[Wordsmithery]

I accept that there are huge areas to be addressed when it comes to trans/non-trans rights: toilets and changing rooms, sporting events, prison accommodation, to name but a few. Government has a lot of work to do, listening to people's genuine concerns and drafting laws that protect everyone. And of course biological men masquerading as trans to prey on women are scum.
However, reading some of the many MN threads on trans people, it feels like there is a terrifying level of vitriol at the right of trans people to even exist. I emphasise, this is not about toilets/safe spaces etc. It's about Will's right to identify as Jill, or vice versa. Why does it really matter so much to us - are we scared of people being different? Are MNers failing to speak out because they're terrified of being shot down in flames? How is it hurting any of us if someone chooses to identify as their non-birth gender (beyond the caveats in my first paragraph)? What is the opinion of MNers with children or siblings or best friends who announce they are trans ?
Asking because I'm alarmed by the lack of trans allies (or even trans tolerators) on this forum. And I'm even more alarmed that there may be a reassuring number of trans allies on here but we never hear from them because they know what response they'll get.
No hate please. We seem to have enough of that already.

Oh and we are happy for them to live publicly as they wish unless what they wish is access to single-sex spaces based on their gender identity not their actual sex.

Rather it turns into a denial of the existence of trans people and an attack on their right to live their life as they wish in public which is not acceptable.

Where have you seen a denial of their existence?

And where have you seen any attacks on their right to live their lives as they wish - within the boundaries of the law and respect for other people?

We never hear from the trans allies on here because they’re scared of the response they’ll get… sounds like how I feel about speaking my opinion on the matter everywhere else!

'Rather it turns into a denial of the existence of trans people'

No one denies they exist. We are simply pointing out the truth that you cannot change sex. What is hateful about that?

Good luck with that.

People overlook the violent abuse towards women, see below as examples. And get far too exercised by women saying no.

Yes isn't it telling that all the threats of violence come from TRA's - MEN

I'm more concerned about the hatred towards women in society, specifically from men. Until that ingrained misogyny is dealt with I'll continue to put women's rights first. Maybe think about that OP, really look at who is the most discriminated against; expected to give up their rights to single sex spaces and hard won rights, for a minority who demand it.

The problem is that they wish to live their life in a way that is detrimental to women's rights.

The problem is that they wish to live their life in a way that coerces others into participating in their beliefs.

They can believe they have a womanly gender souls that overrides the material reality of their biological sec all they like. I do not share their faith based quasi religious beliefs.

“It's about Will's right to identify as Jill, or vice versa. Why does it really matter so much to us”

It matters, because we have an NHS so we are paying for this lunacy. It matters, because men feel a right to invade women’s spaces simply because they have donned a frock. It matters, because sportswomen who have worked exceedingly hard to get to the top of their sport are being shoved out by men pretending to be women. It matters, because vulnerable and often autistic teenagers are being groomed online to believe that they are born in the wrong body, when in all likelihood they simply cannot come to terms with the normal bodily changes of puberty, or are gay, or both. It matters because men are accusing lesbians of being “transphobic” because they don’t want to go out with a man disguising himself as a woman. It matters because the NHS has been gaslit into pretending that men can have babies, or breastfeed. It matters, because we are all required to say we believe something that we know to be untrue - that you can change sex. You can’t, and plastic surgery and hormones do not make Jack into Jill. How people choose to live is up to them, and for the sake of politeness, I will call you whatever you choose, but your pronouns don’t make you something you’re not, any more than you can become a cat or a unicorn.

“Aksing because I’m alarmed the lack of trans allies”.

Yeah, right.

If ever there was a prize for the most disingenuous post, it should go to this one.

And trans allies? Who even talks like this? Have you swallowed a corporate DEI manual.

It’s unlike you to be disingenuous. You know as well as I do the way these threads go.

I lost all respect for a relative of mine who’s a transwoman when he posted online that he would aggressively shit in the mouth of TERFS. He’s usually very mild mannered and would actively avoid confrontation- unsurprisingly he’s autistic and has clearly been captured by online groups.

If you want to believe in fairies, that's up to you, OP. The rest of us know that no one can change sex.

Akways with the hyperbole isn’t it

”dennnnyying they exiiist” tjey clearly exist, they are a mass in time and space, what they are not is the opposite sex

I couldn’t give a fuck what men wear or what they call themselves or if they wear make up or whatever but they’re not women and they, like othef men, don’t belong in women’s spaces

There are lots of trans allies in the general population. We generally just don’t bother being loud on mumsnet as, like you said, it’s known for being aggressively transphobic. For me personally it’s not worth shouting into the void - in my life (family, friends, workplace) I know mainly all allies so don’t be disheartened. I’m also queer & despite non queer people shouting about the concept of trans being “homophobic”, honestly I don’t know anyone else in the gay community who thinks that. This is a very small concentrated part of the internet & it’s not representative of how the majority of people feel, just who can shout the loudest (and spew hateful opinions
freely).

There are trans allies on here - they're posting! Unless they are all actually Men of course

Why would you be scared of responses you'd get if you posted support? Shoe me ONE post that has been "hateful" or "vitriolic"?

If you manage to quote at least one ‘vitriolic post’ I’ll turn into a man myself. Please for the love of God someone give an example!

It’s males being in women’s spaces and sports where they shouldn’t be that’s the problem. It’s a ‘let’s all do away with the most basic safeguarding rules for a tiny minority who utter the special words’ problem.

Humans can’t change sex. Rabid trans activism is a men’s rights movement, hence why people aren’t going around chanting TMAM, and trying to force them into male spaces and sports, as everyone knows they are really women and they’re at the bottom of the pile like the rest of us.

I wish people would wise up instead of falling over themselves trying to ‘be kind’ on behalf of boundary pushing men and screaming ‘transphobia!’ to everyone who won’t participate in the Emperor’s New Clothes 2025 style.

Wow so posters and MNers aren’t even allowed to voice concern now.And DEI is to be mocked and decried.

I think YABU

I have been on this site since before I had DC and one of them leaves school next year....

I particularly note, enjoy and appreciate the very nuanced, articulate and considered viewpoints I read here and find the lack of "black and white" refreshing, particularly in discussions around trans issues. The Sex and Gender board has some excellent participants who have very respectful and compassionate discussions.

It often seems to me, both here and on X, that what is described as "hate" "abuse" and "phobia" relating to trans people would be described as "a fundamental difference of opinions" in other spheres.

Insisting anyone who does not agree that men can identify as, and therefore be, and expect to be treated as, women, for all purposes is a hateful awful bigot who should could her mouth shut , is what has lost a lot of support for trans issues tbh.

It's a MO as old as time to make women feel that of only they said what they said the right way, a different way, at a different time, or in a different tone, or to different people ......then they'd have been allowed to say it.

I’m assuming screen shots from this thread will appear on Bluesky or Reddit or wherever else TRA are gathering to wail about the consequences of their own over reach!

Yes, women naively posting that their “lovely TW friends” respect women and are just “living their lives” often have no idea what they’re posting in TRA echo chambers.

You can report any vitriolic posts and they will be removed.

Go on show us what that means in real life.

Jill decided Jill wants to use the womens changing room in work. Jill has full access to the mens changing room and has been using it since Jill started working at the location.

Kate objects to being put in a position where her employer expects Kate to undress in front of a male or be present while a male undresses in front of her.

That was not included as a T&C of her contract and she is not willing to agree to any amendment.

When Jill comes in Kate leaves the changing room to allow Jill to change.

When Jill is in the changing room Kate stays outside and lets Jill change before using the changing room.

Kates employer now say that refusing to be in the changing room while Jill changes is a breach of Kates contract of employment.

Should Kate be sacked?

I'm not being "disingenuous" - I'm simply asking you to quote one single post that is Vitriolic.

Just one.

Or do you accept that you are applying the word unjustly. Perhaps disingenuously even?

Any vitriolic posts quoted yet or is a man cannot change sex 'vitriolic' nowadays?!