if I'm totally fed up of people assuming SAHMs are rich and idle?

[bohemianbint]

I am one, because I CAN'T AFFORD TO PUT TWO CHILDREN INTO CHILDCARE.

I did initially go back to work, but got shafted by my boss and am about to take him to court. We are not minted and I don't spend my time watching tv, eating bicuits and buying handbags. More's the pity. I will go back to work my my children are older, for definite, but for now, I'm stuck, whether I like it or not.

I find it hard to believe I'm the only person who can't actually afford to work?

riven- the guvmint is getting rather a good deal really.

I do think on the SAHM/WOHM "debate" (which to my mind isn't one because we all work and focus on our children- there are very few people doing nothing but childcare as the SAHP- many people are carrying out charity work or informal support roles for other people in the community; or nothing bu t career) that many people would return to work though if childcare were cheaper and more accessible.

The coverage is so patchy across the country. When we lived in Surrey, we had our pick of a vast number of childcare options, running from playgroups to state nurseries to childminders. I'm very glad I'm not trying to find a childcare place for a pre-schooler here in Devon- the preschool places do not even start until rising 4 here, while my three went to playgroup from 2 in Surrey (which they were ready for and needed).

jammi - your post sums up why this is such a complex issue. There is no 'right' or 'wrong' even within the family. The upside of your dp earning more for you to stay home can be a downside for him if he;s then doing a job he doesnt like as much. Having care from your family/godparents has the upside of saving money, the downside is that your ds doesnt get the continuity and interaction of nursery.
Maybe the key to this issue is accepting that there just is no 'one right' answer for anyone. The more people in a family, the more variables to consider - mum, dad, children... must be even more complicated when there are step children too. Needs change as well; what is right one year isnt necessarily right the next.

I have been both a WOHM for 12 years and now I'm a SAHM. I can see both sides od the coin from my experiences. I feel that as long as you can justify what you are doing at any one point in time to be the right and best thing for you and your family then there isn't a problem. Nothing stays the same for very long and I feel that parenting is an evolving situation to which you need to adapt constantly as your children grow and develop different needs. Why do we need to attack each other to make ourselves feel that our own choices are all the more right? I don't care what anyone else thinks of my choices becuase htey are right for my family and I right now. Being able to be a WOHM takes a lot of sacrifice and determination, just as SAHM. There are plus points as well as negatives but we should definitley NOT belittle oneanother for the choices we make for our families no-one elses, we are all MOTHERS after all.

btw I am not rich or idle.

Having care from your family/godparents has the upside of saving money, the downside is that your ds doesnt get the continuity and interaction of nursery. Ever seen a grandparent at a playgroup? Um yes.

Personally I think that the advantage of having family or grandparents to share childcare is the affection, interaction and continuity it provides. The disadvantage, from my perspective, of grandparental childcare is that it doesn't allow parents to distance themselves sufficiently from their own parents when bringing up the children. Too claustrophobic for my liking - but you have to balance that with the hassle of nursery.

We didn't have the 'advantage' of family childcare and have always stood on our own two feet - we decided to have children after all, our parents have already done their bit by raising us and I feel that it would be unfair to expect them to childmind for us in order for us to save money. When I worked I paid my way and it cost me believe me! for holiday cover and term time before and after school and before that full time nursery and I was on pretty low income too. My job was important to me in those days. My ds gained an awful lot form nursery/ school holiday activity clubs but also gains a lot from having down time with his friends and the ability to chill out at home also. kids need chill time too much strucutred activity is not always a blessing for them iykwim. People who have willing family members to help in this way are very fortunate indeed, but would they do it if the boot was on the other foot? I'm not sure that at age 50 ish I would want to give up my career even part time to be a childminder for free/ reduced rate even if they were family.

At my daughter's school quite a few children are looked after either entirely or in part by grandparents when they are not at school.

And some of those grandparents are still working themselves - they are just old and rich enough to have house staff that their own children cannot afford.

Jammi - tbh I think the option of having family care for your child whilst you work is far far preferable to a nursery! Also, have you considered working from home around your child? There are plenty of opportunities and if you have family available to help then it will be even easier but you can plan around this and be flexible.

Seems to me that this option would be the best of both worlds for you.

"MIL parked DH in nursery very early and worked his entire childhood" - what a lovely comment to make - you dont need to justify why you are a SAHM but neither do you have to be so nasty to those who use childcare.

I'm sure it wasnt for his entire childhood unless she used 24 hour care. Once a child starts school they are away most of the day anyway.

We all make a choice, we either stay at home, work full time or try part time based on what the family decide to do. If you choose to stay at home and can financially afford to do so then great (by financially I mean supported by a partner not the state), if you choose to work because you like it thats great too - if you HAVE to work you try and find the best solution in order to support your family.

I do understand the worry about lifestyle changes for the family. It looks to me like some people are happy to cut down so they live almost on the minimum in order to SAH. I think its understandable that people don't want to live like that voluntarily in the long run. Its not a situation I would want either for myself or for my children.

Fairymum - I quite agree.

There is a £ level below which I would not like our household income to fall - our standard of living would become too uncomfortable.

Just as there is also a household income above which our standard of living really won't improve much - in fact, I think we got there long ago (I know we are very lucky, this is not a boast) as we are able to put aside money for the children's education already. That's a point when being a SAHM or a very part-time worker can become a good decision for the family as a whole (providing the person giving up work is fine with that) as having a parent around and available does offer real, tangible benefits to the children, and also to the other working partner.

Anna8888, how right you are.

We found that me giving up work gave DH more flexibility. That removed the pressure from his life which made our lives easier.

There are benefits and drawbacks to any partner being a SAH person, but we find the benefits far outweigh the drawbacks.

I have done the career thing...in fact for the first 10 years we were together I earned much more than DH and was suitably ambitious for a good long time.

That part of me seems to have burned out somewhat. Increasingly long hours and bonkers bureaucracy at work meant that it got less enjoyable. Now, I am perfectly content with my lot at home.

I've done the 5* hotels, the 5 course lunches, the first class travel and the management courses in beautiful surroundings.

Now I get to play WII with my 7 year old during school holidays and I'm here for playdates after school every day.

I help struggling readers at school twice a week and I'm around if my dd's friend's mums are struggling with childcare cover for inset days or if they get stuck in traffic on the way back from work.

I don't focus my whole life around DD, so I'm sure I won't fall to pieces when she leaves home, but I'm realistic enough to know that I personally can't be doing with the pushme/pullyou life of work and childcare.

My dd knows we don't have heaps of money spare at the end of each month, but she knows daddy & I both contribute to the 'pot'. I sell on Ebay and have since she was a baby, so that keeps a little money coming in.

And to set a good example for her, DH & I rarely argue about money (in fact I can't remember the last time); we both contribute to the household chores and we both treat each other with respect. We goal set every January so that DD can see how important this is to us and we review regularly, so we can celebrate successes. That way, DD realises that being home isn't a worthless role.

I know everyone is different and some people hate SAHM's, some SAHM's look down their noses at WOHM's but we're all aiming for the same thing...to bring up our kids the best we can.

What works best? Who can say? I have loads of sisters and loads of nieces and nephews who're now grown. The SAHM's don't seem to have achieved more with their kids than the WOHM's, so I don't see it as a deciding factor in how my own DD will turn out.

Neither should anyone else.

And if other people see no value in the role of the SAHM, so what? That's their problem.

Is there anyone on this thread not happy with their choice? I thought not. Why don;t we celebrate the choice and be thankful we're all not made to work/to stay at home?
Connie...do you own a small working from home business?? Thought you may be trying to recruit!

posie - of course I've seen grandparents at playgroup! The discussion was about grandparents looking after a child as a form or childcare, as opposed to nursery care. A playgroup is not the same thing: it tends to operate on shorter hours which don't fit work hours, and often parents/carers remain there with the children. it is a different facility from a day nursery.

'Jammi - tbh I think the option of having family care for your child whilst you work is far far preferable to a nursery! '

• that's absolutely fine, but it's only one opinion. There are certainly advantages to having a relative look after your kids (the main one being financial!!) but there are downsides too eg many grandparents are still working themselves or at least want the freedom to not tie themselves down to childcare, there may be conflict in how the child is looked after, which is can be difficult to resolve when they are ultimately doing a huge favour, a grandparent isnt necessarily in the best position to provide the interaction with other little ones, and it also changes the nature of the child/grandparent relationship. Swings and roundabouts.

Squilly - super post

We also do the annual review thing, though in September . It's really coming together now - it took a while to set up.

Really interesting post squilly.
It also really highlights the fact that it's incredibly helpful if you have close friends/relatives who are 'ahead' of you in the breeding game - you get the benefit of seeing their experiences and how things have turned out for them. We are in the same position - some older nephews/nieces and some friends whose kids are a good few years older than ours. As you say, there is no marked difference between the children of SAHM/WOHM. That's just one variable among many. Other things play a huge role - innate characteristics of the child (some children are naturally more confident/ more sociable/more whingey), also the stability of the family over the years, whether there has been a family split/other family members coming/going. So many different factors.

I was talking about the interaction a child gains at a playgroup and so being with a grandparent doesn't follow that the child misses out on that. I know that children don't go to playgroup as a form of childcare, they go as a form of play and interaction.
Those who are still working are unlikely to be the ones providing childcare. Many of the children I know benefit greatly from time spent with very patient, kind and loving grandparents who thoroughly enjoy the company of their grandchildren. Many of these children seem to talk very well too, don't know why could be coincidence.

Not coincidence: language skills are acquired through a variety of means, and are to some degree dependent on cognitive ability, but also on being exposed to a rich diet of experiences.

Actually, the greatest driver for advanced language skills is frequent (several hours a day) one-on-one conversation with a very small number of highly articulate adults.

Yes, if you are concerned about rapid aquisition of advanced language skills, that would be the optimum environment.

Surely it depends on the grand-parents