To want to nip this in the bud ( LGBTQ views , child )

[Calmorchaos]

I’m after some advice really on how to approach this.

I have always been the type of person to support anyone to be who they are. I’ve never shied away or shielded my children from the world - very much a ‘love is love’ person and always encouraged my children to support those who need it and be inclusive ( in terms of people being bullied , disabilities etc too ) .

My youngest is going into high school ( 11 ) . Over the past few months I’ve noticed a few comments such as “ there are 2 genders “ , “ I don’t support LGBTQ “ . I’ve addressed this in the moment . But recently he found out his new school has an LGBTQ assembly on a monthly basis and he has started saying he doesn’t want to go because “ he doesn’t support it” . I sat down and had a chat with him , I explained to him that it isn’t really his place to choose to not agree with it - it’s not a choice , i explained it as he could say he doesn’t agree with people eating meat as that is a choice he would be making , but someone’s sexuality is their feelings and not a choice.

I am sure comments will allow me to explain more how the conversation went from my side so I won’t drag this post on with that but his comments were unnerving :

• he believes someone chooses to be gay , they can control it but they choose it
• we can choose who we fall in love with
• if a friend of his told him he was gay he would still be friends with them but not as good because they chose to be gay and he doesn’t support it.

I know he is very young and he doesn’t understand and has things to learn. He is the sweetest boy and the way he said these things sounded scripted as though he has heard others say this . I know he is a child and it’s my job that guide him and that’s the advice I’m asking for , how do I address this? I’m not saying I need him to go around advocating I just don’t want these views becoming ingrained and he becomes the reason another student who is struggling, struggles more. I know I may be overreacting but this age and as the years go on is a time that he can be heavily influenced . He’s a quiet, sweet boy and I do believe he could be heavily influenced.

Another concerning thing is that when I asked him where he had heard all this and where it comes from he said his Dad .

Yep doesn’t it.

That doesn’t make any sense whatsoever.

So Andrew Tate said

men having sex with a trans identifying male is less gay than having sex with a man that doesn’t identify as trans.

His brand of homophobia aligns almost exactly with the trans homophobia.

Transing away the gay.

His brand of misogyny, homophobia and extreme use of sex based stereotypes is very similar to the trans ideology style rebranding of same sex attraction to same ‘gender’ attraction (which literally denies that people are exclusively attracted to the same sex) and rigid trans messaging that if a child likes the toys and clothes if the opposite sex, then it’s an indicator they are trans.

Two cheeks of the same arse, to coin a phrase.

Can you explain how the premise that gender identity is more important than biological sex doesn’t affect the protected characteristic of sexual orientation?

As the point was made in the FWS vs Scotgov court case - gay people are attracted to members of the same sex, not members of the opposite sex with a certificate claiming they are the same sex.

Have you seen the title of this actual thread? It says LGBTQ.

If you look at the thread below, you will see a live demonstration of homophobia with threats by trans identifying men to turn up to disrupt a lesbian event and to get it shut down. They say “no LGB without the T”. It is inextricably linked by vast numbers of organisations including schools.

It is the same homophobia that Andrew Tate promotes. He thinks it is not gay sex if a man identifies as a woman while he is having sex with a man. Erasure of sexual orientation.

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5355905-lesbian-pride-march-saturday-5th-july-women-only-london?page=2

Ritchie’s story is not scaremongering.

And the bulk of the op’s OP almost in its entirety bar one word was about homophobia. Homophobia NOT anti trans ideology.

It has zero to do with the op and homophobia in schools.

Welcome to the internet, where conversations evolve in ways you aren’t required to personally approve of.

That the T has been lumped in with LGB as if they’re natural bedfellows facing the same issues is problematic in a number of ways, not least because the narrative of ‘you must support ALL, and if you don’t then fuck you, bigot’ turns many would-be allies away from supporting LGBT entirely (hell, even gay and bisexual people have been alienated for this reason). People are unsurprisingly averse to being told what they have to think and derided if they fail to fall in line, and are more likely to double down in opposition than they are to support. Hence the backlash.

As I stated - in response to the person saying the crime would be homophobia- someone expressing the opinion that being gay is a choice, in the context of a conversation wouldn’t be charged with a crime.

That’s all.

My point still stands - they would not be commiting a crime by saying they believe it’s a choice to be gay.

Also worth mentioning many (not all) people within faith communities believe and express that opinion or something similar (as well as non- religious people) and they’re not being charged/convicted .

It’s just not a thing.

I know - do people actually believe this or is it just for the purpose of the argument/thread? 😂

I hadn’t read most of the thread when I commented tbh but since then what I have read seems chaotic lol

It was in direct response to your posts about your child as from what you said it seems that he was fairly vulnerable and you were trying to protect him from homophobia.

With respect, being unable to recognise homophobia is not going to help your quest. I’m just amazed at how impervious to facts and information you are.

I’m fully informed re homophobia thanks .

We were discussing hate incidents along side hate crimes which can also be reported to police. Continuously being deliberately offensive could very well be described as a hate incident. In the same way if people goaded re pork with Muslims.

No it’s not a conversation that has evolved but a complete bullying take over and hijack to something the thread isn’t even about.

People are talking about an issue explicitly mentioned in the OP. It not being the issue you want the primary focus to be on does not constitute ‘hijacking’.

He’s right though, there are only 2 genders. I would speak to him about kindness to others but, ultimately he’s entitled to his views.

I find it fascinating that not one of the posters complaining about my posts and calling me nasty things like ‘freak’ and ‘disgusting’ and bizarrely, ‘homophobic’ (now deleted) have actually explained why homophobia inspired by AT is any different to homophobia pushed by trans ideology.

And why they are they convinced that the issue with OPs son is entirely down to AT style homophobia and misogyny rather than confusion generated by regular indoctrination sessions assemblies for 11 yr olds, where the concepts of sex and gender are mixed up together, kids are told you can be born in the wrong body, or be gender fluid or non binary.

So if you look at the messaging, OPs son’s views are perfectly logical. If you can choose to be a different ‘gender’ then you can choose whether or not to be gay (as trans ideology defines that according to ‘gender’) by just being attracted to the person of the opposite ‘gender’, regardless of their sex. Confused? How do you think an 11 yr old feels?

As always in these threads, I am open to being convinced if someone presented a convincing explanation (that actually makes sense and has properly defined words). None has come so far, just insults.

It clearly wasn’t what the op wanted to discuss and as near enough all her op showed.She wanted help on how to approach the hominid views her son had which were specifically detailed NOT an obsessive anti trans take over and lecture.

Honestly, it's not worth trying.

As a poster on this page has made clear, they're coming for the gays, now.

Don't need to debate equality.

Out of interest, who is ‘coming for the gays’?

Do you mean the trans lobby who has tried several times to legislate same sex attraction off the statute books and replace it with same ‘gender’ attraction or ‘gender identity’ which is an entirely different thing? (Especially when it comes to the more esoteric genders like Cloudgender- how do they find each other I wonder?)
The FWS judgement which was fought hard against by the trans lobby has established the right of lesbians and gay men to have exclusive women only or men only clubs or organisations. The trans lobby don’t believe that gay men should be allowed to exclude females who identify as men and vice versa.

Why are so many on this thread prepared to ignore homophobia promoted by one group but condemn a very similar strand of homophobia from another group?

It is quite telling that some of the most vociferous posters dismissing and insulting me here are regular supporters of trans ideology on the Feminist board.

As I said, welcome to the internet. Where conversations aren’t required for evolve in ways you, or indeed even the OP, approve of.

Or, rather, "welcome to Mumsnet, where for the last few months every thread to do with L, G or B people has been completely overrun by trans stuff, usually resulting in the thread's deletion".

And for a conversation to evolve, there needs to be a conversation occurring.

BundleBoogie is largely just going on lengthy rants with barely anyone engaging with them. I don't think anyone has posted anything "pro trans" for about 20 pages, so why carry on?

Then sure, ‘welcome to Mumsnet, what exactly were you expecting?’ also works.

🤷🏻‍♀️

I am, of course, aware that even a thread about a broken transmission or BLT sandwich is going to see some trans comments - but having one poster spend page-after-page banging on (at length) into a disinterested-but-increasingly-irritated void is weird.

Unless they're just actively trying to drown the thread or get it deleted.