To want to nip this in the bud ( LGBTQ views , child )

[Calmorchaos]

I’m after some advice really on how to approach this.

I have always been the type of person to support anyone to be who they are. I’ve never shied away or shielded my children from the world - very much a ‘love is love’ person and always encouraged my children to support those who need it and be inclusive ( in terms of people being bullied , disabilities etc too ) .

My youngest is going into high school ( 11 ) . Over the past few months I’ve noticed a few comments such as “ there are 2 genders “ , “ I don’t support LGBTQ “ . I’ve addressed this in the moment . But recently he found out his new school has an LGBTQ assembly on a monthly basis and he has started saying he doesn’t want to go because “ he doesn’t support it” . I sat down and had a chat with him , I explained to him that it isn’t really his place to choose to not agree with it - it’s not a choice , i explained it as he could say he doesn’t agree with people eating meat as that is a choice he would be making , but someone’s sexuality is their feelings and not a choice.

I am sure comments will allow me to explain more how the conversation went from my side so I won’t drag this post on with that but his comments were unnerving :

• he believes someone chooses to be gay , they can control it but they choose it
• we can choose who we fall in love with
• if a friend of his told him he was gay he would still be friends with them but not as good because they chose to be gay and he doesn’t support it.

I know he is very young and he doesn’t understand and has things to learn. He is the sweetest boy and the way he said these things sounded scripted as though he has heard others say this . I know he is a child and it’s my job that guide him and that’s the advice I’m asking for , how do I address this? I’m not saying I need him to go around advocating I just don’t want these views becoming ingrained and he becomes the reason another student who is struggling, struggles more. I know I may be overreacting but this age and as the years go on is a time that he can be heavily influenced . He’s a quiet, sweet boy and I do believe he could be heavily influenced.

Another concerning thing is that when I asked him where he had heard all this and where it comes from he said his Dad .

He should be able to choose to go or not to an LGBT assembly. I would be removing my child because of this quite frankly. Stop trying to push this ideology onto your child.

Being 'morally against what they do' is homophobic. Are you suggesting otherwise?

Eh? What’s not the point?

Yes the first link was to NEU.

The other three links were to organisations who are engaged in promoting harmful and warped misinformation about trans people online. Safe schools alliance and transgender trend focus specifically on spreading anti-trans propaganda; care campaign on this too, and also promote a few other bad policies, justifying these in biblical teachings.

I did not personally attack you, nor are my statements defamatory. Mumsnet HQ have helpfully clarified that the post was removed for being 'deliberately inflammatory'.

I clarified to them that from my perspective, I was certainly not motivated by a desire to be gratuitously provocative for the sake of upsetting people and causing conflict. Rather, I am deeply concerned about the spread of misinformation online and how consuming this information is affecting attitudes towards trans people. However, I will consider more carefully in future about how I word things in order not to fall foul of the guidelines with regard to being 'deliberately inflammatory'.

I suggest that rather than consuming content from online campaigning groups, posters refer to scientific books and journals if they want to improve their knowledge and understanding of issues related to: sex development, gender development, transness/ being trans, gender dysphoria, social transition and gender transition related health treatments.

You could be right. I'm actually surprised a kid that young would have homophobic views. I'm wondering where he's getting it from. I'd hope he's not getting dodgy influences online.

I meant to quote this in my response

The first link was to NEU.

The other three links were to organisations who are engaged in promoting harmful and warped misinformation about trans people online. Safe schools alliance and transgender trend focus specifically on spreading anti-trans propaganda; care campaign on this too, and also promote a few other bad policies, justifying these in biblical teachings.

I did not personally attack you, nor are my statements defamatory. Mumsnet HQ have helpfully clarified that the post was removed for being 'deliberately inflammatory'.

I clarified to them that from my perspective, I was certainly not motivated by a desire to be gratuitously provocative for the sake of upsetting people and causing conflict. Rather, I am deeply concerned about the spread of misinformation online and how consuming this information is affecting attitudes towards trans people. However, I will consider more carefully in future about how I word things in order not to fall foul of the guidelines with regard to being 'deliberately inflammatory'.

I suggest that rather than consuming content from online campaigning groups, posters refer to scientific books and journals if they want to improve their knowledge and understanding of issues related to: sex development, gender development, transness/ being trans, gender dysphoria, social transition and gender transition related health treatments.

promoting harmful and warped misinformation about trans people online

Youll be able to back this up with examples thr ? I take it you’ve actually read the websites in question. I can’t see anything harmful or ‘warped’.

I’ll make it easy for you. Here is their mission statement on the front page. Can you specify exactly what is ‘harmful and warped misinformation’ in that please?

Transgender Trend is the leading organisation in the call for evidence-based healthcare for children and young people suffering gender dysphoria and for factual, science-based teaching in schools. Our expertise was acknowledged recently when we were granted permission by the High Court to intervene in the Keira Bell v Tavistock & Portman NHS Trust judicial review.
Established in 2015, Transgender Trend has led the way in advocating for the rights of children to reject gender stereotypes and be who they really are without discrimination, labelling or medical intervention to ‘fix’ them.
We believe all children have the right to go through puberty and reach adulthood with their fertility intact and that this is a fundamental human right.
We believe that children with gender dysphoria deserve evidence-based treatment and have a right to the same duty of care as any other child.
Our message is:
No child is born in the wrong body.

Continued from the Transgender Trend front page. Do tell me which bits you disagree with @Tandora - we might get somewhere.

Transgender Trend advocates for the most vulnerable children who are caught up in the recent trend in society to replace the objective reality of sex with the subjective idea of ‘gender identity’ as the criteria for being a man or being a woman. ‘Gender identity’ ideology teaches children who don’t conform to masculine or feminine stereotypes that their personalities are ‘wrong’ for their sex, and their bodies are then ‘wrong’ for their gender identity.
The number of children and young people who now believe they are really the opposite sex is reflected in the unprecedented recent trend in referrals to the Tavistock Gender Identity Development Service.

Boys and girls should be able to wear what they like and have whatever interests they choose without adult interpretation through the lens of a non-scientific, ideological belief that human beings are born with an innate sense of being male or female, which is inevitably based on sex stereotypes.
In school, acceptance of a boy who likes to play with dolls as a girl is no acceptance at all.
Acceptance of a lesbian adolescent girl as a straight boy is no acceptance at all.
This approach only serves to reinforce restrictive and harmful stereotypes. ‘Affirmation’ is not kind, it affirms to a child that they are the wrong sex and encourages a child’s belief that their body needs medically changing. Medical intervention can only ever effect cosmetic change; the child’s sex remains the same.
We advocate for the rights of lesbian and gay young people to grow up as lesbian or gay. We advocate for the rights of autistic children and those with mental health problems or background trauma to receive proper therapeutic care, not a ‘diagnosis’ that they are really the opposite sex. All children and young people deserve treatment based on clinical evidence, not ideology.
In schools all children deserve to be taught science-based facts, not ideology disguised as ‘fact’. All children have the right to privacy from the opposite sex in toilets and changing-rooms. Policy in schools must always put safeguarding first and schools should not use resources that confuse children about sex.
Children should not be coerced into expressing a belief in ‘gender identity’ through the threat that not to do so is ‘unkind’ or ‘transphobic’.
On this site you will find information and research, resources for parents and teachers and legal information. Please have a look around the site and sign up to our blog for updates on current news stories and developments.
We have worked tirelessly for years to facilitate debate about an issue which we feel should be openly and publicly discussed. Please join us.
We receive no funding from any organisations, charities or government, we depend entirely on individual donations from our supporters. Our continued development relies on your kind donations. Please consider setting up a monthly donation, or you can make a one-off donation by credit card, Paypal or through your bank. Thank you for whatever donation you are able to make.

I already told you, the first clue is their name - transgender trend, which promotes the harmful, (unscientific), prejudicial idea, rooted in moral panic, that being trans is a “trend”.
I have followed transgender trend since they started out, they have got more sophisticated in how they express themselves to give off an appearance of being authoritative and reputable , but even still the mission statement is full of dog whistles and manipulative claims:

without discrimination, labelling or medical intervention to ‘fix’ them.

all children have the right to go through puberty

No child is born in the wrong body.

Of course you don’t agree because, as has been very clear from my extensive interactions with you , you share the same ideology.

All of it!!

And you share a different ideology, with Mermaids etc.

So despite all the evidence of harm and strong likelihood of desistance you think that children should be allowed to decide to halt their brain and body development of puberty?

Society recognises that children are not mature enough to make decisions with permanent consequences like getting a tattoo, getting married, drinking alcohol, having sex etc. Stopping puberty stops brain development as well as the body. It has a detrimental effect on IQ and will ensured that they remain sterile.

There is no evidence that stopping puberty improves outcomes and lots of evidence that not only does mental health get worse but it’s disastrous for long term physical health and fertility.

After all the discussion on this, the Cass review, the government rightly banning use of puberty blockers to prevent puberty for this purpose and Amnesty renewing their campaign to stop the same drugs being given to chemically castrate rapists, after all that - you still advocate for them to be given to children?

Many children hate the process and changes of puberty. Autistic children often have even greater issues with change and as a result are over represented in children who were referred to the Tavistock.

In my opinion, agreeing with a distressed child dealing with the trials of puberty that yes, they really are in the wrong body is cruelty of the highest order.

Children shouldn’t be allowed to make adult decisions. They need to go through a natural process of growing up and are far more likely to feel happier when they mature and if not, can make any serious life changing decisions to present as if they were the opposite sex when they are adult. There is a very good reason why the NHS won’t even let 30 yr old women be sterilised - they know there’s a chance they may change their minds. Letting children decide to prevent their it returned and be sterile before they have any concept of what they are losing is abuse.

If course I don’t agree because I know what a child is. It’s a shame you don’t.

Yes I disagree with all of this but I don’t see any point arguing with you about it.

As I said, if people want to learn about these issues they really should consult peer review scientific and medical resources, not online campaigns groups.

Seriously??

So you disagree with this bit?

We advocate for the rights of lesbian and gay young people to grow up as lesbian or gay. We advocate for the rights of autistic children and those with mental health problems or background trauma to receive proper therapeutic care, not a ‘diagnosis’ that they are really the opposite sex

And this bit?
In schools all children deserve to be taught science-based facts,

And this?

All children have the right to privacy from the opposite sex in toilets and changing-rooms.

Oh well, at least you’ve put all your cards on the table now. Readers can make up their own mind on which views are ‘harmful and warped misinformation’.

I disagree with almost all of what you post on this subject. It’s completely warped and misinformed.

I agree with this:

We advocate for the rights of lesbian and gay young people to grow up as lesbian or gay.

We advocate for the rights of autistic children and those with mental health problems or background trauma to receive proper therapeutic care, not a ‘diagnosis’ that they are really the opposite sex

And this:

In schools all children deserve to be taught science-based facts,

All of which are perfectly compatible with accepting and recognising trans people and their right to appropriate healthcare. Including trans children.

Anyway.

As I said, if people want to learn about these issues they really should consult peer review scientific and medical resources, not online campaigns groups.

Readers can note that Transgender Trend always cite sources and include references. This page is a good example:

https://www.transgendertrend.com/current-evidence/

In schools all children deserve to be taught science-based facts,

So you agree with this - brilliant!

So science teachers can use the words of eminent scientist Sir Robert Winston and respond to questions on the topic with “it is not possible to change sex”.

Pretty much everything else flows from that.

It’s a shame you don’t agree with this though:

All children have the right to privacy from the opposite sex in toilets and changing-rooms.

There are many girls and boys who think that’s pretty heartless or to use your word - ‘warped’. Being a teenager is hard enough - why would anyone want to make that harder?

Btw ‘transition’ is a decision rightly restricted to adults in law and by the medical establishment so there are no ‘trans children’. Only vulnerable, confused, sometimes autistic or abused children that manifest their pain with dissatisfaction in their body. The vast majority will find that things improve when they have fully matured and either their feelings about their body settle down or they find non harmful ways of processing their feelings.

I’m sure you know that already though.

Well that page is a good example, really, of why advocacy groups aren't the most reliable source of info.

The page you linked generally argues against gender affirming care for children.

In doing so, it cites 6 peer-reviewd studies (though 1 of those studies is nothing to do with transgender healthcare, but about social media and mental health).

Of the 5 that are about transgender children/healthcare, only 3 comment directly on gender affirming care, and all 3 are supportive of it to different extents.

2 dont comment directly on it, though 1 could reasonably be understood to be critical of it.

So yes, Transgender Trend do cite sources, but I think its fair to say they rely heavily on cherry-picking/selective quoting.

To stress - I really don't have strong feelings on the topic, and am happy to accept the Cass Review as the current standard for best practices, but I dont like it when any group presents ideology as facts, regardless of whether or not my ideology aligns.