Son asked for advice - what would you advise him?

[SallyMcCarthy]

My 21-year-old son and his gf have been together 3 years. In Feb 23, they split up for a few months after both treating each other badly. Then in summer 2023 they got back together, committed to making it work, and have been happy together ever since. My husband and I welcomed the gf back into our life instantly and unconditionally. From our point of view, whatever had gone wrong between them and then been sorted out was entirely their business. All we needed to know was that our son had now decided he wanted to be with her again. It was up to him! Since he now wants her in his life, she’s of course going to be part of ours.

Her dad took a different approach, however: he told her that it wasn’t good enough that she and my son had apologised to each other, sorted it out and got back together. He said he wouldn’t allow my son back at his dinner table until my son had apologised to him for the way he had treated his daughter.

My son, thinking this man was unreasonable, and being unwilling to pander to such interference and boundary violation, didn’t apologise to his girlfriend’s dad, and as a result has been ostracised by her family ever since. So, my son and his girlfriend have been hanging out with our family a lot. She’s been treated like a member of our family - allowed to stay and eat with us all the time, taken out for meals, taken on holidays… we’ve all just accepted that this is how it’s going to be - our family being nice to her while hers is horrible to my son.

However… a problem has now arisen. My son was planning to treat her to an amazing holiday abroad, which he was going to pay for and was happy to pay for. Then, just as he was about to book it, he found out that she was going on holiday with her family for a week later in the summer - and that her brother and sister’s respective girlfriends and boyfriends were invited on this holiday. His girlfriend also blamed him for the fact that he wasn’t invited and said to him, ‘It’s your fault you’re not invited - why can’t you just apologise to my dad like he’s wanted you to since Feb 2023?’

My son told me last night that he’s now feeling much less keen to treat his girlfriend to this holiday, for two reasons:

1. she seems to think he is entirely responsible for the continuing problem between him and her family, rather than realising her dad is the unreasonable one - and he’s hurt that she hasn’t in any way stuck up for him to her dad or advocated for him - instead she’s blaming this long-standing issue totally on my son.

2. he no longer feels comfortable that he, and our family, are treating her so nicely and treating her to all this stuff, and she’s happily accepting all of it while also allowing her family to exclude my son and being willing to go on holiday with them while they exclude him, and blaming it all on him.

I think it is totally reasonable of him to have qualms about treating her to a holiday given that she’s not, as he sees it, sticking up for him to her dad? But am I being unreasonable?

I have an alcoholic parent in law and it’s honestly hideous. You should advise him to get out whilst he can

Some people are stubborn, that is life.

We don’t know all the ins and outs of how they treated each other badly first time around, but father of the GF will naturally only care about how his daughter is treated, that is normal.

The son should have manned up and apologised; his gf is right, it’s his fault they are still in this situation. imho.

So she has a controlling arsehole of a father and she would rather acquiesce to that control and expect him to also live under the same oppressive control than assert herself as a free individual.

I'm sorry but I don't think this relationship will last if that's the circumstances she wants to live under.

It's not quite enough to break up over, but I think he should maybe hold off on treating her to lovely holidays and other things that signify a deeper commitment for the time being. Sooner or later she will need to choose whether to keep letting her father be in control of her life. If she's never going to be willing to break free then he should end the relationship - but he doesn't have to force that choice yet. He is fine to carry on, because most of the time he is unaffected by her father's arseholery.

I wouldn't rein back on your kindness and generocity to her. It's not a trading thing - you are modelling to both of them what a genuinely loving family is like.

If your son was rude or aggressive or dismissive to her father yes he should apologise for that.
but it sounds like she comes with too much baggage. Either they go off
BY THEMSELVES and have a holiday to work it all out and step back from the family stuff.

I don't think it's any loss to your son to not be invited on a family holiday controlled by an abusively screaming alcoholic sexist patriarch. If he had any sense he would decline any such invitation. If his girlfriend had any sense, she would decline too.

If asked I would be advising my son to let this relationship go, apologising to her alcoholic father for upsetting her when she was equally if not responsible?!
Not a chance, it sounds like her Dads on a power trip and if she doesn’t stand up for him now she never will, every row etc will be related back to her Dad and your son will never be able to win no matter what he does. Too young to be dealing with all of this nonsense, they should be having the time of their lives.

I'd give this relationship 6 more months.

Did the GF tell her DF the truth that she started off by getting it together with someone else first while still having your DS think it was an exclusive relationship.

If so and her DF has decided to skim over and ignore her behaviour I'd tell your DS that he's had a lucky escape as it sounds like either it's a family thing all quite normal for them to do, and isn't the GF's first time cheating.
Her DF sounds like a bully, she's a daddy's girl and will happily side with him.

Maybe you also need to step back and stop treating her like one of the family, she may be reading it that you think she's done nothing that's that bad if you're including her in family events.
Be civil but that's it.

Either way unless you DS sees this girl as being a long time, possibly marrage partner I'd advise him not to waste the best years of his life on someone that has shown their true colours and lack of respect for him so early in the relationship.

I think a lot of what will happen will depend on the personality type of the daughter.

My father was violent and verbally abusive and I grew up thinking this was normal and children needed to be shouted at/physically disciplined.

I was shocked when I met normal families after leaving home and I realised what was missing from mine. I did a lot of self-work and have never hurt or emotionally abused my children. They have clear ideas of their boundaries which I don't intrude on and we're pretty emotionally healthy as a family.

Many people with my background go the other way. It's why children of toxic families are more likely to go on to create their own toxic family. Unless they are self-aware and have a growth mindset, then why would they consider doing anything different?

I'd send your son some of the responses here OP. It might be helpful for him to see the perspective of outsiders. He has set his own clear boundary on the apology, it is clear and should be respected. If his girlfriend doesn't understand how her own father's behaviour is inappropriate, then there is no chance of your son ever being respected as part of this couple and the relationship may limp on for a few years (causing heartache and stress for all involved) but will ultimately need to end if your son doesn't want to have his boundaries trampled.

I recommend running on empty by jonice webb - it's a book about childhood emotional neglect. It talks about growing up in a house with a narcissist /addicted parent (plus loads of other dysfunctional scenarios). It's worth your son reading the book so he understands the potential dynamics of that household/how to understand his girlfriend. Ultimately she may change, but she may be too young to recognise the dysfunction yet.

You're conflating posts. The comment that poster was responding to was someone asking (well before the OP had posted her comment about the Dad being alcoholic/shouty), whether there was a chance that the OP's son might have been violent, and a poster responded to say if that was the case, why would the Dad be insisting the son apologise to him. You asked where they got that from (I assume the bit about the son being voilent) and the poster showed you the comment that they had responded to.

Your son needs to apologize.
You respect your elders.
Especially your girlfriends dad

As it turns out, the girlfriend's dad is an abusive alcoholic so doesn't deserve any respect.

If he apologised to his gf, where's the harm in apologising to her dad for treating her badly? Should have smoothed things over straight away.

An adult does not have to apologise to someone who does not warrant one, just because they happen to be older.

Unless there's something we don't know, this man (who is also an alcoholic) has no reason to be owed an apology, and OP's soon had no reason to apologise to him.

I might as well go across to my neighbour across the road, who's 40 years younger than me, demand an apology for no reason, and when I don't get one, say "but I'm older than you! Respect me!"

The girlfriend behaved much worse to OP's DS than he did to her. Plus her father is an abusive alcoholic who regularly shouts at his wife and daughter. He isn't a man who deserves any respect or apologies.

If that's the case then maybe OPs son shouldn't have apologised at all. But given that they have and presumably want to move on my point still stands.

Has gf's dad apologised to you @SallyMcCarthy ? It's clear his arrogant, violent and abusive behaviour and general crap-dad vibe is at least partly at the root of his daughter's infidelity, causing you unreasonable levels of anguish. You should definitely demand an apology from him.

I think he needs to end the relationship and tell this girl exactly why. That whilst he is fond of her, expecting him to apologise to an alcoholic bully who is emotionally abusive to her and her mother is not reasonable and no normal person (who hasn't grown up in such a dysfunctional family) would think that it was. I think it is a shame that this girl will quite likely end up with someone similar to DF because that is her normal, unless she manages to break free. They are both very young and DS will no doubt meet someone else in time who doesn't come with all this baggage. Personally if this was my son I think I might be heaving a sigh of relief, as much as I might feel sorry for her.

Im sure this has been said already but why on earth should your ds be apologising to the dad for anything to do with his daughter? She is not his possession and I d be very concerned if she doesn't realise this! It looks like your ds recognises this at least?

If your ds did treat his gf badly (or indeed is doing so now) her df is entitled to point this out to his dd, of course. And indeed he is entitled not to spend his money on accommodating your ds on a holiday if he doesn't like him. He may feel your ds owes his dd more of an apology and can say as much to her. But beyond that it has to be up to her. Insisting on an apology to the df sounds weird and controlling, and a bit creepy tbh.

Why would you apologize to the parent of an adult for a relationship breakdown? And why only the dad and not the mum?

should the girlfriend also apologize to op and her husband for cheating on their son?

it’s just so very odd. The dad clearly sees himself as the gatekeeper to the family and wants to establish his control over everyone. I wouldn’t bow to that kind of personality - there would be no going back

Ah, now it all falls into place. The dad is a bully, playing the big man.

So your son hasn't done anything TO him that requires an apology. He just WANTS an apology for the way his daughter was treated.

He's used to being the one everyone panders to/pussyfoots around, is he? Shouts at his wife. Thinks his daughter is a little princess.

Nope. He wouldn't be getting an apology if it was up to me.

He should hang fire on paying for that holiday and see how this relationship pans out...

Ah ok so the f is an abusive drunk..Id be glad to be left out of that holiday if I was him..But as pps point out , she has quite a path to climb recovering from her home situation, starting with moving out and recognising just hoe abusive and fucked up her family is

It’s none of the father’s business and he shouldn’t be involved. We also don’t know what happened. If she cheated on him, he needs the apology. I’m just speculating bc I don’t know the reason. I’m just not seeing why he needs to apologize to her father. It’s see seems so childish and young couples sometimes have ridiculous fights. Not all, but most. She needs to backup her boyfriend.

What a load of bollocks. No way would my son be apologising to an abusive alcoholic, when he hadn’t done anything to him to apologise for.

Read the thread. The GF cheated on OP’s son. Why should he apologise to an abusive alcoholic dad for reacting to the actions of his daughter ?