Son asked for advice - what would you advise him?

[SallyMcCarthy]

My 21-year-old son and his gf have been together 3 years. In Feb 23, they split up for a few months after both treating each other badly. Then in summer 2023 they got back together, committed to making it work, and have been happy together ever since. My husband and I welcomed the gf back into our life instantly and unconditionally. From our point of view, whatever had gone wrong between them and then been sorted out was entirely their business. All we needed to know was that our son had now decided he wanted to be with her again. It was up to him! Since he now wants her in his life, she’s of course going to be part of ours.

Her dad took a different approach, however: he told her that it wasn’t good enough that she and my son had apologised to each other, sorted it out and got back together. He said he wouldn’t allow my son back at his dinner table until my son had apologised to him for the way he had treated his daughter.

My son, thinking this man was unreasonable, and being unwilling to pander to such interference and boundary violation, didn’t apologise to his girlfriend’s dad, and as a result has been ostracised by her family ever since. So, my son and his girlfriend have been hanging out with our family a lot. She’s been treated like a member of our family - allowed to stay and eat with us all the time, taken out for meals, taken on holidays… we’ve all just accepted that this is how it’s going to be - our family being nice to her while hers is horrible to my son.

However… a problem has now arisen. My son was planning to treat her to an amazing holiday abroad, which he was going to pay for and was happy to pay for. Then, just as he was about to book it, he found out that she was going on holiday with her family for a week later in the summer - and that her brother and sister’s respective girlfriends and boyfriends were invited on this holiday. His girlfriend also blamed him for the fact that he wasn’t invited and said to him, ‘It’s your fault you’re not invited - why can’t you just apologise to my dad like he’s wanted you to since Feb 2023?’

My son told me last night that he’s now feeling much less keen to treat his girlfriend to this holiday, for two reasons:

1. she seems to think he is entirely responsible for the continuing problem between him and her family, rather than realising her dad is the unreasonable one - and he’s hurt that she hasn’t in any way stuck up for him to her dad or advocated for him - instead she’s blaming this long-standing issue totally on my son.

2. he no longer feels comfortable that he, and our family, are treating her so nicely and treating her to all this stuff, and she’s happily accepting all of it while also allowing her family to exclude my son and being willing to go on holiday with them while they exclude him, and blaming it all on him.

I think it is totally reasonable of him to have qualms about treating her to a holiday given that she’s not, as he sees it, sticking up for him to her dad? But am I being unreasonable?

All I needed to see was the girlfriend blaming him. Dump her is my advice.

Edit: She was cheating? Dump her. Why the hell did he get back with a cheater? Never. Big lesson for your son, and you, have self-respect and don’t be treated like mugs. I’d bet good money she is still cheating.

Well, your DS sounds like the less guilty party (but that may just be one side of the story). Is this what happened according to your DS or did his girlfriend confirm this?

I strongly suspect that the girlfriend didn’t tell her - apparently verbally abusive and alcoholic father - the same story. So that may be relevant.

There are two things your DS can do IMO:

1. cut his losses / end the relationship
2. understand and accept that his girlfriend (who probably still lives at home or at least relies on her parents financially / is in education) is not ready yet to stand up to her father. He can stand by her, encourage her BUT also communicate his boundaries to her and emphasise that he needs her to respect those boundaries.

the second option is clearly harder and if his gf is still so entrenched that she can’t respect him / his boundaries he may need to break up anyway.

I sympathise with the girlfriend due to having grown up in a similar situation and being extremely familiar with those dynamics. But it still doesn’t give her the right to trample your DS‘s boundaries.

HOWEVER: Your sons is also an adult. He needs to make his own decisions. You can simply share your opinion when he explicitly asks and shouldn’t interfere or emulate her father by mirroring his treatment of your son (via his girlfriend).

No way. Its over. She's behaved appalling and so has her family. I agree snogging someone isn't great but he stopped it. I'd be very cautious with the whole family.

time to move on!

Based on that update, OP, the girl and her family sound like far too much drama. For her to ‘like’ posts mocking your DS reveals a bit of a cruel streak not changed by the reconciliation.

This relationship doesn’t sound good for him. I am not sure you can say that to a young man in love, though.

Woah, assuming that's all the details & you're being straight up - why the Fuck have YOU accepted her back into the fold??

Your family has buried the hatchet and hers hasn't. She poisoned the well and her dad hates your son. She doesn't have your son's back.

If they married and had kids, he would have an in-law who hates him, actively excludes him, and she would not have his back. Then, there's the fact that the dad is an active? alcoholic. That's asking for trouble.

This is toxic. He should leave the relationship, the future for them is not a happy one.

Here's the quote history.

So gf cheated and liked the cheating lads posts mocking your ds and your DS snogged a girl

Tell your DS for his own self worth run a mile from this girl

If he meant anything to her she would stand up to her father and tell him to get stuffed

I suspect she uses your DS and your family as an escape from her own toxic family
He is just place marking till she finds someone else

Tell him to dump her and find someone who sees a future with him and only him and who doesn’t cheat on him, mock him and then blame him for not pandering to an abusive alcoholic family member.

Had something similar (but different) last year. My son (27) is better off out of that toxicity. Your son’s gf has been brought up by this father. The apple doesn’t fall far from the tree. Steer clear

It was the father who was violent to the gf

So why would her bf be apologising to the person who was screaming at his gf

This isn't about holidays at all. And despite the drip feed, it's fairly clear that this isn't a good relationship. Your son, for his own self-respect, should have left after that whole cheating debacle. He's made his own bed here. Yes there is always a compromise, but why on earth would he stick with her?

This is never going to work out and your DS should call time at this point.

Also, it’s probably not been ideal including the girlfriend in all your family stuff. They are 21yo, and very rarely do such relationships go the distance so a bad idea to try and enmesh her so much.

This confirms my suspicions. This is a toxic relationship and the families are being sucked into the drama.

Advise your son to consider strongly what a long term relationship/marriage or god forbid kids is going to be like with this girl and her family. Advise him that he's a big boy and can date whoever he wants but that you're not going to be sucked into drama or playing 'he said she said' Advise that any relationship in which you have to try and get a parent to 'side with you' is almost certainly a toxic one. It's not up to you to assess who started it or who cheated worse than the other. They're adults in a romantic relationship not a 2 and 4 year old fighting over their favourite toy.

Try and remove any emotion from any response you make. You will always be there for him to seek refuge and protect him if needed but you're not getting involved in another adult's relationship. If he chooses to continue with her he owns this choice and all of the consequences.

Here is the quote
The He refers to DS being the witness to the abuse.

Son has always been very friendly and polite and considerate to all of her fam. He’s also, on many occasions, witnessed her (alcoholic) dad scream abusivley at gf and reduce her and her mum to tears!!

Agree. Who does he (the dad) think he is?

I wouldn't advise your son to apologise, it has nothing to do with her dad who sounds controlling. He's lucky not to be going on holiday with them, it sounds like it will be a tense holiday anyway.
Whether they stay together or not will probably depend on whether his girlfriend can separate from her family enough to see how unreasonable her dad is being and recognise his faults. Since it's all she's known, perhaps she won't do that, or perhaps she just goes along with her family because it's easier. I would still welcome her to your house if your son wants her there.

She treated your DS appallingly and her family is a toxic mess.

Dating at his age should be fun and easy with a side order sounding out if there a furture - it doesn't sound fun and clearly has no future.

I'd tell him it's another sign that she is showing him contempt - doesn't have his back and is more trouble than she is worth.

Oh, I've just read the update. The whole relationship is doomed to fail, I would just tell your son to walk away.

Show him this thread. Nuff said!

I think the behaviour your son witnessed from the dad is very relevant. His GF may be scared of her dad and unable to stand up to him. The dad also doesn't sound like someone I would want in my life, I'd be quite happy for him to cut me off and not invite me on holidays. Your son can decide the relationship isn't for him but trying to punish her for not standing up to her dad is just adding another man to her life trying to control her.

The Dad is treating his daughter as his property. I'm inclined to think that this is probably due to misogyny but it's hard to say for sure without knowing him; he might think he owns all of his children regardless of sex. GF is going along with and normalising this at the expense of Son. But it also sounds like she never asked Son to apologise to Dad, just assumed he'd do it and became angry when he didn't?

I think the holiday is a red herring and the two are probably incompatible BUT if Son still wants the relationship the best he can do is explain to GF why he has not apologised and doesn't feel he should, and try to make her understand why he's disappointed that she has caved in to a bully apparently without resistance. There's likely a lot more to it - for example, GF wants to appease Dad in order to keep relationships with her mother and siblings. But she needs to communicate, not tantrum.

Once Son understands the situation and dynamics, it's up to Son to decide whether he can apologise to this arsehole for GF's sake/in order to keep the peace or not. It should also be an option that GF sees her abusive Dad in her own, including the family holiday if she must, and doesn't drag Son into it. But if the matter can't be discussed openly and for as long as it takes to come to an agreement between Son and GF, then I don't think the relationship has much of a future.

Well if that's the story Op your son was an absolute fool to get back with her.

Let alone want to treat her to a holiday!

A cheating gf with an alcoholic dad she can’t stand up to is not a good bet. Nor would it be at all a good idea to go on holiday into that toxic mess.

It’s time to split.

Did gf actually cheat on your ds? Or only like the other guys posts? I somehow feel that you might be downplaying your ds's deeds and embellishing what his gf has done. I feel like there is more to this than what you have told us, even if it is just because you don't want to be outed. Either way, this relationship sounds toxic. Imagine how complicated and toxic a wedding would be! There'll be long-lasting resentment from your ds's side if he apologises. It also looks like the gf is milking it , living the life of riley being treated well by both families. Getting paid for holidays from both families. Bit of a cheek really. I think they should break up.